TF or Watanabe?

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TF Denka is more expensive than Toyama. In fact Denka even costs more than Toyama Damascus.
Watanabe is about the same price as Toyama after upgrading to comparable handle and adding postage.
 
TF Denka is more expensive than Toyama. In fact Denka even costs more than Toyama Damascus.
Watanabe is about the same price as Toyama after upgrading to comparable handle and adding postage.

A 240 Toyama is $395.46 at JNS; a 240 Watanabe at Carbon Knife Company is $345.00. Both with magnolia handles and horn ferrules and shipping included. Both are out of stock.
 
A 240 Toyama is $395.46 at JNS; a 240 Watanabe at Carbon Knife Company is $345.00. Both with magnolia handles and horn ferrules and shipping included. Both are out of stock.
Lol. I just saw that it was 395$. I think I must have been looking at something else. I thought I saw them for close to a 1000$
 
A 240 Toyama is $395.46 at JNS; a 240 Watanabe at Carbon Knife Company is $345.00. Both with magnolia handles and horn ferrules and shipping included. Both are out of stock.

I was referring to the prices direct from Watanabe where a 240 gyuto with the cheapest horn handle is around $380 shipped.
The Watanabe knives at Carbon Knife Co are a great deal. The 210 gyutos in stock are cheaper than direct from Shinichi.
 
From my stash—240 Denka and 240 Watanabe Iron Clad Blue.

Love them both, very different characteristics in these two iconic knives.

For me, comparing the two:

TF has a distinctively, livelier feeling steel, it cuts more aggressively; nimbler than my Wat, appears to get significantly sharper. Aesthetically fits in my wheelhouse, since I'm a rustic KU fan. Better for tip work than Wat.

My Watanabe is a pure 'worker,' well balanced, no frills, gets the job done. If prepping a lot of ingredients for a big supper party, I'd prob grab the Wat over the TF—it's dependable, less idiosyncratic than my TF. Wat's blue steel holds its edge for a long time. However, I do need to be more vigilant wiping down the knife, cladding is quite reactive.

For everyday cooking for two, the TF gets the nod—lighter and more low maintenance with stainless clad. My Wat weighs in at

Tough call as to which I'd choose over the other. Sorry if not helpful in helping you decide.


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IMAGE 2020-08-06 10:58:19.jpg
 
Incredible photo. By the way, what are the handles?
 
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From my stash—240 Denka and 240 Watanabe Iron Clad Blue.

Love them both, very different characteristics in these two iconic knives.

For me, comparing the two:

TF has a distinctively, livelier feeling steel, it cuts more aggressively; nimbler than my Wat, appears to get significantly sharper. Aesthetically fits in my wheelhouse, since I'm a rustic KU fan. Better for tip work than Wat.

My Watanabe is a pure 'worker,' well balanced, no frills, gets the job done. If prepping a lot of ingredients for a big supper party, I'd prob grab the Wat over the TF—it's dependable, less idiosyncratic than my TF. Wat's blue steel holds its edge for a long time. However, I do need to be more vigilant wiping down the knife, cladding is quite reactive.

For everyday cooking for two, the TF gets the nod—lighter and more low maintenance with stainless clad. My Wat weighs in at

Tough call as to which I'd choose over the other. Sorry if not helpful in helping you decide.


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Nice, a red handle Denka.
Best looking Denka out there 😍😍😍
 
From my stash—240 Denka and 240 Watanabe Iron Clad Blue.

Love them both, very different characteristics in these two iconic knives.

For me, comparing the two:

TF has a distinctively, livelier feeling steel, it cuts more aggressively; nimbler than my Wat, appears to get significantly sharper. Aesthetically fits in my wheelhouse, since I'm a rustic KU fan. Better for tip work than Wat.

My Watanabe is a pure 'worker,' well balanced, no frills, gets the job done. If prepping a lot of ingredients for a big supper party, I'd prob grab the Wat over the TF—it's dependable, less idiosyncratic than my TF. Wat's blue steel holds its edge for a long time. However, I do need to be more vigilant wiping down the knife, cladding is quite reactive.

For everyday cooking for two, the TF gets the nod—lighter and more low maintenance with stainless clad. My Wat weighs in at

Tough call as to which I'd choose over the other. Sorry if not helpful in helping you decide.


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I feel like Lemeneid has already figured this issue out. Good info though.
 
It has been proven that the non KU watt is actually Toyama.

between TF Mab. & Denka, the Mab is closer to the Toyama price while Denka is a lot more expensive now, no longer comparable to Watt/Toyama.

After having both Mab. & Denka in 210, as a home cook with lite usage, I couldn’t tell any real difference between the two to justify keeping Denka over Marboroshi, so out went the Denka.

I still have one Mab & one Toyama, it’s tough, I don’t know how to choose between the two if I am only allowed to keep one 🤷‍♀️
 
Has it been “proven proven” beyond doubt that Toyoma and Wat are the same?

Or is it forum mythology based largely on forum heresay

Not sure - I read slightly different versions on various posts

And the Nakiri’s I got from them (Wat and Toyoma) were different knives - made by different people for sure
 
I should clarify I was only referring to Gyuto. There could always be doubt, nothing is absolute.

However, it’s been proven beyond reasonable doubt IMHO. Thus, these two were often collectively referred to as Watayama or Toyanabe.
 
I should clarify I was only referring to Gyuto. There could always be doubt, nothing is absolute.

However, it’s been proven beyond reasonable doubt IMHO. Thus, these two were often collectively referred to as Watayama or Toyanabe.
*Watanoyama or Toyamanabe
 
It may well be that there is a symbiotic entity Toyonabe or watanoyoma

But I do hear a lot also about Toyoma being 80 years old, which may crimp is production volume. Maksim, is the only retailer I know of Toyoma, only gets in Toyoma knives once in a blue moon, in small quantities. On the other hand, Shinichi has stock on hand, creates a 210mm Pro Nakiri for me in 2 weeks, etc. Seems to have an abundance of production capacity

Just wondering.....
 

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