The official Piss & Moan Thread

[Reptyle]

Figured we could use a little thread here to consolidate all of our b*tching about the one(s) that got away. Or at least give me space to cry.

We all have had our hopes dashed as we compete for highly desirable knives. Whether it is due to a slow internet connection, missed opportunity on BST, or simply (misplaced) self-restraint, we've experienced the disappointment of the blade that got away.
This is the place for those stories.

 

[Reptyle]

I've definitely experienced this frustration before and been upset with myself for being too slow. At times, it has discouraged me and made me almost give up on competing for coveted knives. However, there had always been another blade that has come along and captured my attention. These days, my kit/collection has gotten to the point where I'm really not buying anymore and am more than happy with the knives I have. I've seen some bangers available (even from makers I have been wanting to try) and have been able to easily pass over them. I'm satisfied.

Well, I thought I was.
I haven't even been looking at knives recently, but then I came close to unexpectedly obtaining my unicorn this past weekend. I was willing to let go of a substantial part of my collection (even some of my favorites) to fund this acquisition. Alas! It was not meant to be. This is the one that got away. She was perfect. I thought I was all set on my kitchen knives, but now I see that's not quite. Regardless, she will be the one that got away.

 

[1315]

Seems prices have really jumped the last 8 months. I used to think $300 was alot. I missed a few chances at Spare heavyweights in 26c3, I'm regretting that. BUT, like you, I'm pretty happy with what I have, might have to even sell a few as 15 is too many for my kitchen. Sure had fun buying back when buying was good!

 

[user 16756]

The number of people stating with absolute certainty they don't use bots does not line up with my innate sense of probabilities working with probabilities daily for a long time now.

Especially because in systems without rules, as soon as one person cheats, you tend to get a cascading situation where EVERYONE cheats because they want to win too, but in general if you play fair, you will not beat someone who is cheating. Sort of like doping in sports.

Obviously I'm not going to point my finger at anyone specifically, I have no evidence and even if I did w.ever it's not my business. But...

but.

I don't like it. I'm not going to pretend like I believe everyone is just that lucky that they beat all the botters by chance as a general proposition, either.

I am just gonna go play with stones or w.ever for the most part, or stick to less popular makers because I would rather not play the game than engage in that behavior myself. Again, not gonna judge others, just going to do what I think is right, and it aint that.

 

[user 16756]

Also I want a Milan *** **** it.

My man has been producing absolute fire knives and he is always sharing knowledge. He is one of if not my favorite makers because of that alone, and I have never touched one of his knives. Absolute travesty if you ask me.

 

[enrico]

*** ****

My brain can't figure out what these words are. Help

 

[BillHanna]

I had a Milan once………… le sigh

 

[user 16756]

My brain can't figure out what these words are. Help

let's pretend it's dag nabbit.

(it's something that a would get your knuckles hit with a ruler in a certain type of school)

 

[nickrut]

My brain can't figure out what these words are. Help

G. D. is my guess. Not sure why G is blurred but here we are.

 

[superworrier]

The number of people stating with absolute certainty they don't use bots does not line up with my innate sense of probabilities working with probabilities daily for a long time now.

Especially because in systems without rules, as soon as one person cheats, you tend to get a cascading situation where EVERYONE cheats because they want to win too, but in general if you play fair, you will not beat someone who is cheating. Sort of like doping in sports.

Obviously I'm not going to point my finger at anyone specifically, I have no evidence and even if I did w.ever it's not my business. But...

but.

I don't like it. I'm not going to pretend like I believe everyone is just that lucky that they beat all the botters by chance as a general proposition, either.

I am just gonna go play with stones or w.ever for the most part, or stick to less popular makers because I would rather not play the game than engage in that behavior myself. Again, not gonna judge others, just going to do what I think is right, and it aint that.

I'm gonna say that some people seem a bit too lucky
But then again a lot of people crying bots don't even use 1 click checkout or autofill or anything

To elaborate on this, I find a lot of people saying this base the bot assumption on stuff like "wow I got into my cart, but it didn't check out" and the reasoning in their head is "I was as fast as possible, but I still didn't get it, thus it must be a bot". But there are also 10+ other people being "as fast as possible", so it feels like pure arrogance to call bot on such scenarios. Especially when these people will often talk about "typing speed" (sometimes literally, sometimes not), which makes me think they aren't even operating at peak checkout efficiency.
I can kind of get it for the scenarios where you never even get to see the "Add to cart" button, but I wonder if caching is playing a role there.

I'm sure bots/scripts exist, but I don't think they are anywhere as common as people think. But someone has 10 Jiros they got from drops and you can't help but think...

 

[nickrut]

I don't think bots are too too frequent, but they def exist. Configuring one isn't too hard once you do it once or twice. I haven't used them for knife buying yet, but used to do it for sneaker buying and it wasn't too bad.

Jiros seem to go almost too quick. I think sometimes people have the heads up, or the knife is sold before it even goes live.

 

[user 16756]

I'm gonna say that some people seem a bit too lucky
But then again a lot of people crying bots don't even use 1 click checkout or autofill or anything

To elaborate on this, I find a lot of people saying this base the bot assumption on stuff like "wow I got into my cart, but it didn't check out" and the reasoning in their head is "I was as fast as possible, but I still didn't get it, thus it must be a bot". But there are also 10+ other people being "as fast as possible", so it feels like pure arrogance to call bot on such scenarios. Especially when these people will often talk about "typing speed" (sometimes literally, sometimes not), which makes me think they aren't even operating at peak checkout efficiency.
I can kind of get it for the scenarios where you never even get to see the "Add to cart" button, but I wonder if caching is playing a role there.

I'm sure bots/scripts exist, but I don't think they are anywhere as common as people think. But someone has 10 Jiros they got from drops and you can't help but think...

IMO there is a good precedent for thinking it's bots though.

Look at GPU sales in the past few years. Not only is it super common, people there freely admit they are using them. And on top of that, there are several no-code solutions out there which make it a lot easier. Would it really be different for knives? Maybe, all things are possible. But what I see does not jive with how many of these knives are available versus how many people seem incredibly motivated to get one.

Granted I look at it from the perspective of someone for whom even writing his own bot would be pretty trivial given how I spend my days currently. Not someone salty I'm missing out on drops, because again, I refuse to engage with that because overall I get what the kids call bad vibes from the whole thing. Reminds me way too much of 78rpm record collecting.

I will state, for clarity, that my statement is not so absolute as maybe my language makes it out to be. Precisely what I mean is:

The number of people loudly proclaiming they do not use a bot (or even know what one is in the year 2023) does not align with how much of an advantage using one would give you in these situations, and when taken into consideration with how much demand exceeds supply for these items, I find it unlikely that everyone is being truthful.

 

[Bodine]

I think collectors are one of the reasons for higher prices. Tradesmen are not stupid, they will raise prices according to demand.
Meanwhile, a home cook wanting a nice knife has no chance at obtaining one, while others are stuffing their drawers with knives they do not use.
Just throwing that out there, LOL

 

[OkayMode]

The number of people stating with absolute certainty they don't use bots does not line up with my innate sense of probabilities working with probabilities daily for a long time now.

Especially because in systems without rules, as soon as one person cheats, you tend to get a cascading situation where EVERYONE cheats because they want to win too, but in general if you play fair, you will not beat someone who is cheating. Sort of like doping in sports.

Obviously I'm not going to point my finger at anyone specifically, I have no evidence and even if I did w.ever it's not my business. But...

but.

I don't like it. I'm not going to pretend like I believe everyone is just that lucky that they beat all the botters by chance as a general proposition, either.

I am just gonna go play with stones or w.ever for the most part, or stick to less popular makers because I would rather not play the game than engage in that behavior myself. Again, not gonna judge others, just going to do what I think is right, and it aint that.

Man this is spot on.

Ultimately there are no consequences to admitting it, so it seems dishonest to me when no one is willing to put their head above the parapet. I would actually prefer if people were more open about their use of bots so I can know either not to bother waiting for a high demand drop with my one click checkout, or alternatively that it’s widespread enough that I should get my own script and play on the same terms as everyone else if it’s something I really want.

It’s one thing to be a well connected member here and score some gems on the regular via BST or private conversations, but it’s hugely suspect to be ‘getting lucky’ on multiple drops direct from retailers.

Ultimately the market for high value kitchen knives is niche and limited, and I’m betting most people using bots are here somewhere

 

[Scott]

Not sure where the bots are but personally I’ve had a fair chance to get the knives I’ve wanted from retailers once I got the proper set up and approach to checkout.

I haven’t tried acquiring Jiros and FMs which are part of a larger community.

But honestly, I’ve acquired a lot of my pieces from an unhealthy amount of stalking and trading on BST. There is likely a premium however, in some way or another if you wanted to acquire a certain piece right away.

 

[blokey]

I think collectors are one of the reasons for higher prices. Tradesmen are not stupid, they will raise prices according to demand.
Meanwhile, a home cook wanting a nice knife has no chance at obtaining one, while others are stuffing their drawers with knives they do not use.
Just throwing that out there, LOL

They still can, there are many nice factory or semi-hand made knives out there, while most collector knives are much nicer but they are likely super niche and wouldn’t likely be bought by regular home cooks in the first place. (Many western smiths are just earning a ok wage even if they charge alots of money)

 

[blokey]

Tho personally I think people need to let go of some of the collector mind set, especially regarding certain brands whereas the same combination of smiths and sharpeners just sits at other places

 

[Blank Blades.]

 

[superworrier]

You're right @tcmx3 that bots are likely easy to come by and use, but given how many people aren't even capable of setting up autofill or stuff like that, I do think it's less than what people proclaim.

I think if people freely admitted to using bots, it may encourage bot usage and make people more aware.

Tho personally I think people need to let go of some of the collector mind set, especially regarding certain brands whereas the same combination of smiths and sharpeners just sits at other places

Yeah, this is so true. It's basically just a handful of knives that you can't get with just regular diligence. But FMs, Jiros, Yanicks, are not end-all-be-alls, and people still end up buying them and selling them. Less common for Yanicks, but I think the FOMO is part of it, and the fact it's basically a trade trump card. Without the hype, people would be more willing to let go of these knives. If I could easily buy back an FM for example, I'd probably have sold mine by now.

 

[Scott]

I definitely used to think certain knives were trump trade cards.

Surprisingly I found out a lot of people wouldn’t let go of pieces they really like to potentially get a knife they might like.

 

[Naftoor]

All you people who got into the knife game 10 years before me burned up the high skilled makers who make crazy feather Damascus, and turned them off doing customs. Now I can’t get them to do my custom

 

[superworrier]

I'm a little bit conflicted myself with this.

For example, I have desirable knife X that would probably sell instantly on BST. Honestly, without the hype, I'd probably have sold it by now. But since it is so hard to obtain, I feel like I should give myself time to try to appreciate it (because it would be hard to get another chance).

Subsequently, if I let it go, I'd probably be tempted to use it as trade bait. But it feels less legitimate, and more like I'm trying to hold onto that value.

But honestly, I don't really like this. I feel like it makes it hard for people to try these hyped knives. Now instead of this knife potentially being with someone who can use and appreciate it, I'm just holding onto it letting it collect dust more or less.

Basically, less of these knives are available for sale, which creates positive feedback loops where rarer knives are just impossible to try at all unless you already have some. Even worse, every rare knife becomes competitive. The9 for sale? Why not? I can trade it for something else even if I don't want that knife. Suddenly, knives I don't want are valuable just because of the rarity, and that's why you have 100 people going for every hype knife.

 

[More_Gyutos]

lIf I could easily buy back an FM for example, I'd probably have sold mine by now.

if you sell it to me I will sell it back to you later pinkie swear.

 

[Barmoley]

Part of the problem here is the strong anti flipping attitude of the forums. Hyped up knives would be a lot more available if flipping wasn’t frowned upon. Not necessarily easier to get because the prices would be higher, but at least more available. We sort of created this situation where in order to get a rare, popular knife one has to know someone who has it and do a private sale or have something else to trade. Some go so far as to sell on different platforms not to be called out here. A lot of the hype seems to mostly be driven by certain look of the knives rather than performance, but this is a different topic all together.

 

[M1k3]

I've used bots.

In Counter-Strike and Half-life.

 

[jedy617]

I wonder if people think I bot, I was very quick and lucky and got my togo reigo fm and my yanick. Little do people know, I've been trying on every drop for Yanick for a long time and never got one (until earlier this month). Same thing with Raquin, been trying to get a knife direct for a looong time and it's the quickest thing ever. Also have tried on every jiro drop for 2 years that I could try for and no luck either. There have been tons of pocket knife drops I have missed over the years. After having hundreds of folders, I have gotten 2 first come first serve in my life online.

Speaking of that Yanick one, I really felt like I could have been quicker lol. I think people overestimate how fast they go. I misclicked on one of the buttons on my first click and still got it.

Moral of the story though is I have most of everything I want, so I shouldn't complain either, but if I miss out on a future drop of something I really wanted, don't worry you will see me here. (I actually really wanted this one which just dropped and was lighting quick. Wrought iron, 145sc and perfect size: Gyuto 235mm)

 

[Heckel7302]

I've had a fair amount of success in the last year or so. Jiro (CKC), Birgersson (maker drop), Xerxes (maker drop). I didn't use bots, unless you consider autofill a bot. I've missed a couple too. I really find it hard to believe there are many people out there using advanced bots to snag sought after knives. As high demand as they are to us, high end kitchen knives are a super niche thing. It's not like they are Taylor Swift tickets.

Also a Blue 1 Suiboku and Kamon Denty from KKF that I happened to open the site at the right second (it helps if you are on KKF way too much).

Part of the problem here is the strong anti flipping attitude of the forums. Hyped up knives would be a lot more available if flipping wasn’t frowned upon. Not necessarily easier to get because the prices would be higher, but at least more available. We sort of created this situation where in order to get a rare, popular knife one has to know someone who has it and do a private sale or have something else to trade. Some go so far as to sell on different platforms not to be called out here. A lot of the hype seems to mostly be driven by certain look of the knives rather than performance, but this is a different topic all together.

There is definitely angst against flippers here, but in the end, people aren't stupid. Even highly desirable knives just aren't going to sell at crazy markups. That's part of what keeps the flippers (mostly) out of the game. When's the last time you saw a Kamon sit on BST for more than 24 hours? I think when people buy expensive desirable knives it's with a certain idea that they could get most of their money out of it if they wanted/needed to, and those people aren't going to wildly over pay, no matter how desirable the knife.

 

[Barmoley]

There is definitely angst against flippers here, but in the end, people aren't stupid. Even highly desirable knives just aren't going to sell at crazy markups. That's part of what keeps the flippers (mostly) out of the game. When's the last time you saw a Kamon sit on BST for more than 24 hours? I think when people buy expensive desirable knives it's with a certain idea that they could get most of their money out of it if they wanted/needed to, and those people aren't going to wildly over pay, no matter how desirable the knife.

Not what I am saying at all. It doesn’t have to be crazy markups, sellers often get grief for selling for 25-30% more or 50% after a few years, so nothing exactly crazy. All I am saying is that I suspect many don’t even list the knives, but hoard them or keep them for trade or sell somewhere else, be it private sales or other platforms. When a knife is almost impossible to replace for the price one bought it for, many will simply choose not to sell.

 

[sansho]

i would definitely be doing automated purchasing if there were a bottable knife i wanted. i would also probably freely admit it because who cares. i pretty much only care about stainless, stainless sanmai, and semi-stainless knives though. or makers like bidinger and kamon, but i don't think they do these silly "drops"?

i suppose my piss and moan is... why aren't knives that entice me "dropped"? i'd be absolutely hammering them with hundreds of threads from dozens of residential connections.

or why don't they all move to provably fair drawings so i don't have to hear so many people complaining about "drops" and feel bad? that's what i'd do if i were a maker. i'd draw using a published, tamper resistant algorithm that decides using a public source of entropy like NIST's beacon. anyone would be able to verify the drawing result. the remaining issue is how to prevent people from entering more than their fair share of tickets.

 

[user 16756]

I've used bots.

In Counter-Strike and Half-life.

to be honest I consider this a far greater sin than using a bot to buy a dumb knife.

cheating at a dumb game? unforgivable

(I may have played in close to 20 seasons of cal/cevo/esea league between 1.6 and GO)