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WaTFTanaki

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“Deprived” and the tone of my response was meant completely facetiously and in jest to refer to the fact that one could have only 3 knives. Not to offend or to the cost of knife. Sorry if it came across the wrong way or if I offended. There is a lot of jest that I enjoy in these forums and that post was in keeping with that spirit.

That said I would never use a white or blue steel gyuto to debone for fear of chipping or ruining it. I think someone suggested subbing a honesuki for a petty in the 3 knife world. I probably could do that.
 

Qapla'

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“Deprived” and the tone of my response was meant completely facetiously and in jest to refer to the fact that one could have only 3 knives. Not to offend or to the cost of knife. Sorry if it came across the wrong way or if I offended. There is a lot of jest that I enjoy in these forums and that post was in keeping with that spirit.

That said I would never use a white or blue steel gyuto to debone for fear of chipping or ruining it. I think someone suggested subbing a honesuki for a petty in the 3 knife world. I probably could do that.
Nah, no offense was involved and no intent to portray anything of the sort either. I was actually more trying to make a point of how sometimes people lose sight of what a chef's knife is.

Though I'm pretty sure that any reasonable-quality white- or blue-steel knife isn't necessarily going to "chip if you look at it wrong" or suffer horribly when it hits a bone. Here's a blue-steel honesuki.

I do have a white-1 gyuto, so maybe I should try deboning chicken with it myself and find out my own answer too.
 

groovecat

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Seems like my opinion differs quite a bit from the crowd.

If I didn't work with food and have a love of sharp objects, my basic list would be:

180mm santoku
140mm serrated utility knife
80-100mm paring knife

The serrated utility knife is great for bread and crusty sandwiches.

My wife gets by just fine with this setup. I bring out my work/nice knives sometimes but that's more for pleasure than utility.
 

Jovidah

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And *** in this deprived world, do people de bone chicken thighs with & break up duck and rabbit into little pieces with? Their $500 gyuto?
As long as it's not bone-in chunks, honestly... paring knife or petty would be fine. You normally have fairly little bone contact going through the joints anyway, and when deboning thighs I tend to do all the scraping with the backside.
Similarly, I did propose a 'beater' gyuto / chef knife and that would be fine. Millions if not billions of chickens have been disassembled through the ages with just about any knife known to man; as long as you know the anatomy I think even a boxcutter would do just fine.
 

vxd

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Only really need one knife: TF Denka 210mm
 

Jovidah

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Pre-sliced bread is one of the most stupid, backwards and counterproductive things ever invented. Whenever people say 'the best thing since sliced bread' they might as well say 'the best thing since nuclear meltdowns' IMO. 😐
 

ModRQC

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in what way?
I’ll take an educated guess: because it accelerates drying/loss of flavor before its even packed? Sorry I was searching all along for what « mie » stands for in English and I should know but it escapes me right now.
 

Jovidah

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I’ll take an educated guess: because it accelerates drying/loss of flavor before its even packed? Sorry I was searching all along for what « mie » stands for in English and I should know but it escapes me right now.
Yes exactly. As soon as you slice bread the quality starts degrading and it starts drying out. To counteract that producers start filling the bread with all kinds of additives to slow the drying-out process, further degrading the quality of the product and filling it with unnecessary junk. The end result is just... crap bread... for no good reason. Slicing bread takes like 3 seconds, and as a bonus, if unsliced bread drives out you can easily revive it by giving it some water and tossing it in the oven.
 

spaceconvoy

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Sounds like someone doesn't refrigerate their bread... Yes, the actual slicing time is minimal, but cleaning up crumbs and washing a knife just for two slices of bread gets annoying if you eat a lot of sandwiches. A good bakery will slice it for you, so your attempt to link poor quality bread to all sliced bread is spurious. And are you implying you can't revive dried out sliced bread with a bit of water too?
 

ModRQC

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Sounds like someone doesn't refrigerate their bread... Yes, the actual slicing time is minimal, but cleaning up crumbs and washing a knife just for two slices of bread gets annoying if you eat a lot of sandwiches. A good bakery will slice it for you, so your attempt to link poor quality bread to all sliced bread is spurious. And are you implying you can't revive dried out sliced bread with a bit of water too?
Quite the defence… White to play and equalize…
 

Jovidah

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Refrigerating bread also dries out it out (the starches recrystalyze). This whole idea with freezing and refrigerating bread is just... silly. And sorry, but if presliced bread lasts longer than 1-2 days it's junk loaded with additives.
If you want convenience and don't want to go to a bakery more often, the far superior option IMO are frozen half-baked breads and bread rolls. Basically they only bake them half the way and you bake them off at home in whatever quantity you need. There's some really good quality frozen stuff out there (usually aimed at restaurants, though not all of it is good), but none of it is sliced, and none of it is ready to eat after only defrosting it.
Reviving sliced bread really isn't the same, that's just toast.
 

ModRQC

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Strong counter attack. Is there some tactic for Black to make for the lost tempi?
 

Jovidah

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It shouldn't be a competition. The problem is that these days it's actually hard to find good bread not filled with loads of junk unless you really go out of your way to look for it. And if you don't know what you're missing it's hard to know what really great bread can be like. In the Netherlands most bread (even at 'bakeries' is also total drama quality.
But I can tell you... that junk filled with a list of additives as long as my leg? It makes me sick as a dog. Quality bread made of 4 or 5 ingredients? Not a problem. Tastes a million time better too, because it includes the 1 ingredient missing in the crappy breads: time.
I think a significant amount of people who have problems tolerating bread / wheat products these days don't so much have a problem with the wheat but with all the other crap that goes into them.
 

HumbleHomeCook

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Well, everyone just says the only three loaves you need are white, wheat and sourdough but how would you change that up for the average home cook?

;)
 

spaceconvoy

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Refrigerating bread also dries out it out (the starches recrystalyze). This whole idea with freezing and refrigerating bread is just... silly. And sorry, but if presliced bread lasts longer than 1-2 days it's junk loaded with additives.
If you want convenience and don't want to go to a bakery more often, the far superior option IMO are frozen half-baked breads and bread rolls. Basically they only bake them half the way and you bake them off at home in whatever quantity you need. There's some really good quality frozen stuff out there (usually aimed at restaurants, though not all of it is good), but none of it is sliced, and none of it is ready to eat after only defrosting it.
Reviving sliced bread really isn't the same, that's just toast.
Exactly! It dries out either way, so why not store it in a more convenient form (sliced) that prevents decay (refrigerated)? Yes, there's nothing quite like fresh baked bread the first day, but after that it's never the same anyways - quickly diminishing returns.

If you have a good bakery and can visit it daily, then more power to you. American life being what it is, the best bread available to me can only be purchased once a week at the farmers market. I enjoy it fresh the first day and immediately refrigerate the rest in a giant freezer bag.

But I still think you're wrong about reviving sliced vs unsliced bread - in my experience it's all about temperature control. Yes, sliced bread will become toast more quickly, but if you can set your oven low enough and use a timer, the results are just as good.
 

Ruso

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I prefer to slice my own bread!
200+mm gyuto and 2 stones anytine over 3 knives.
 

rmrf

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Exactly! It dries out either way, so why not store it in a more convenient form (sliced) that prevents decay (refrigerated)? Yes, there's nothing quite like fresh baked bread the first day, but after that it's never the same anyways - quickly diminishing returns.
That's not entirely right in my opinion. The texture of the crust and the crumb changes when you refrigerate. You will also dry the bread out significantly faster in the fridge. Decay (by which I assume you mean mold) isn't really the first cause of bread degradation; drying out is the first way it degrades. Yes, if you have bread with meats or cheeses, you might not want to leave it at room temperature for a week, but bread will last fine for a week or two in many climates without molding. While bread still warm from the oven or within a few hours of baking does have a distinct taste, I think re-heating in an oven gives an extremely delicious product.

If you have a good bakery and can visit it daily, then more power to you. American life being what it is, the best bread available to me can only be purchased once a week at the farmers market. I enjoy it fresh the first day and immediately refrigerate the rest in a giant freezer bag.
I recommend wrapping your bread in a paper bag and leaving it at room temperature. Plastic is generally considered a bad idea; I think that is because it encourages mold growth. If your room is extremely humid (like mine is sometimes), I recommend no paper bag. Place the bread on a wooden cutting board or some chopsticks to give ample airflow.

But I still think you're wrong about reviving sliced vs unsliced bread - in my experience it's all about temperature control. Yes, sliced bread will become toast more quickly, but if you can set your oven low enough and use a timer, the results are just as good.
I'd have to disagree with you here. I find that re-hydrating a loaf that has not been toasted is a little easier. You wet the outside and you heat in an oven. The added steam in the oven tends to re-hydrate a little better. I think the reason is that the crumb doesn't get over-saturated with water. You can do this with pre-sliced bread, but I find that its hard to balance the "doneness" of the crust and the crumb. If I toast enough that the crumb is soft (it gets a little custard-y) but not too ... wet..., the crust is often too dry to eat. When you re-hydrate, reheat a chunk of bread, then slice, the texture of both is a little better. You don't have to be as careful with the timing either.

I might want to note that the type of bread matters a lot in all of these discussions. The best made brioche won't last a few days no matter what you do. Re-hydrating that just doesn't work as far as I can tell. You need to make bread pudding or something. In my experience parisian yeasted baguettes also tend to go stale at the same time they dry out, so re-hydrating is pretty useless. Other white yeasted loafs can last about a week, but dries out considerably at room temperature and a sourdough whole wheat loaf can last between 1-2 weeks and will usually not go "stale".


It shouldn't be a competition. The problem is that these days it's actually hard to find good bread not filled with loads of junk unless you really go out of your way to look for it. And if you don't know what you're missing it's hard to know what really great bread can be like. In the Netherlands most bread (even at 'bakeries' is also total drama quality.
But I can tell you... that junk filled with a list of additives as long as my leg? It makes me sick as a dog. Quality bread made of 4 or 5 ingredients? Not a problem. Tastes a million time better too, because it includes the 1 ingredient missing in the crappy breads: time.
I think a significant amount of people who have problems tolerating bread / wheat products these days don't so much have a problem with the wheat but with all the other crap that goes into them.
I agree. After I started making bread, I started to realize that other breads and wheat products were giving my stomach problems. However, I don't really know if: 1) I've become more sensitive 2) I've become more aware of how bad breads make me feel 3) wheat products have changed or 4) it is all psychosomatic.
 
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