Thoughts on 180mm Gyutos

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Old Head
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I find many makers have a hard time achieving decent height and having a pointy tip with 180's. So many resemble santokus to me.

Because of that, I am more drawn to a 165mm+ bunka.

That being said, I have a 180mm Tanaka wa R2 damascus gyuto that I grab for a service board knife frequently.
 

Keith Sinclair

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My only K tip is a 180 Kochi. I grab it all the time as a home blade. It is impossible to rock chop with that knife. Forward push & chopping it is a weapon.
 

Michi

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My only K tip is a 180 Kochi. I grab it all the time as a home blade. It is impossible to rock chop with that knife. Forward push & chopping it is a weapon.
My 175 mm (actual length) Saji bunka is the same. Definitely not a rocker.

Below are the Saji, a 210 mm Shun Hiro, and a 250 mm Masamoto KS. Obviously, the Shun is the one I use for rock chopping and most general work. The Masamoto is great for slicing, chopping, and push cuts. It can be used to rock, but isn't great at it: a bit too long and bit too flat. But fun to use for larger quantities. The Saji is what I use for smaller casual jobs, such as cutting slices of salami, cheese, smaller vegetables, such as radishes, and similar produce.
IMG_5380.JPG
 

DitmasPork

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Just added this 180 Takamura gyuto to my kitchen, won it yesterday during the raffle of the MTC open house. Awesome knife.

 

dafox

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Just added this 180 Takamura gyuto to my kitchen, won it yesterday during the raffle of the MTC open house. Awesome knife.

I also have one of those, it's been getting a lot of use. I like it!
 

DitmasPork

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I also have one of those, it's been getting a lot of use. I like it!
Thrilled to get it. Gotta say that I’ve been very much a 240, workhorse, carbon guy—digging this little stainless very much. Great bang-for-buck blade.
 

CiderBear

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Digging this up, because I think it'd be pointless to start another thread on short gyutos: How does everyone feel about a 210mm Sakai? (so about 205mm edge length)

Does any of you use one? I keep imagining that it's an inbetween size - too long for something you can comfortably do with a 180mm gyuto, and too short for something you can do with a 225mm one.

What's your onion on this?
 

K813zra

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Digging this up, because I think it'd be pointless to start another thread on short gyutos: How does everyone feel about a 210mm Sakai? (so about 205mm edge length)

Does any of you use one? I keep imagining that it's an inbetween size - too long for something you can comfortably do with a 180mm gyuto, and too short for something you can do with a 225mm one.

What's your onion on this?
My ginga is 210 (204) and length wise I don't really notice much of a difference with my 180s, generally speaking. It is very, very flexy compared to its 240 sibling though! I don't find knife length to be an issue as a home cook, typically. 165, 255, w/e.
 

CiderBear

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My ginga is 210 (204) and length wise I don't really notice much of a difference with my 180s, generally speaking. It is very, very flexy compared to its 240 sibling though! I don't find knife length to be an issue as a home cook, typically. 165, 255, w/e.
Thanks for your input! With a 205mm knife, what are the pros and cons between a laser profile like your Ginga VS a Sanjo choker?
 

McMan

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Digging this up, because I think it'd be pointless to start another thread on short gyutos: How does everyone feel about a 210mm Sakai? (so about 205mm edge length)

Does any of you use one? I keep imagining that it's an inbetween size - too long for something you can comfortably do with a 180mm gyuto, and too short for something you can do with a 225mm one.

What's your onion on this?
More like 195mm... Sakais tend to be 15mm shorter.
I think sometimes differences in lengths can get blown out of proportion--the difference between, say a 180 and a 195 is half an inch. For me, that's not super significant. The difference between 210 and 270, that's significant.
I like 180mm, I like 195mm, I like 210mm, I like 240mm... :)
 

dafox

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I have a Suisin Inox honyaki 210, 205mm gyuto. I mostly use it for cutting sushi rolls, and for fine vegy prep like taking strips of cucumber skin off to leave green stripes then finely slicing the cucumber for an Asian cucumber salad.
 

K813zra

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Thanks for your input! With a 205mm knife, what are the pros and cons between a laser profile like your Ginga VS a Sanjo choker?
I don't have a lot of experience with sanjo blades in general tbh (mostly with sakai and echizen). Having said that, height, stiffness and food separation come to mind. The ginga (and kono) are good at in hand stuff, for me, as well, which lends to their petty like feel. Larger 210's feel more like a proper gyuto, to me, if that makes sense.

But that is just the preference of a home cook with limited experience.
 

MowgFace

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My Ginga is like 203. The length isn’t what gets me, it’s the heel height. I love the knife, it’s just more effectively a short suji, or line knife with the 42mm height for me.
 

CiderBear

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Thank you for the perspective. I almost forgot that the difference between 214mm (my Morihei Hisamoto which I adore) and 205mm is only a little less than a cm, not like the Morihei and, say, 245mm Hinoura or 244mm Watanabe.

I guess the next thing to take into account is blade height and weight. I love my morihei at 54mm and 200+g. I'm not sure if I would like something 49mm tall and only weight around 160g.

But I won't know unless I get to try one, arghhhhh
 

MarkC

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Thanks for your input! With a 205mm knife, what are the pros and cons between a laser profile like your Ginga VS a Sanjo choker?
I can't give you an apples to apples comparison on size but I have an Ashi Ginga 240mm and a Matsumi Hinoura 180mm. I use the knives very differently due to their profile and weight. I prefer the Matsumi. The weight of the knife, the grind that seems to have food just fall off of it is a joy for me. Even though the Ashi is longer, I tend to use the tip more and for finer work. For my style of prep and cutting, I tend to reach for the Matsumi. I just love the knife.
 

HRC_64

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Thank you for the perspective. I almost forgot that the difference between 214mm (my Morihei Hisamoto which I adore) and 205mm is only a little less than a cm, not like the Morihei and, say, 245mm Hinoura or 244mm Watanabe.

I guess the next thing to take into account is blade height and weight. I love my morihei at 54mm and 200+g. I'm not sure if I would like something 49mm tall and only weight around 160g.

But I won't know unless I get to try one, arghhhhh
The advantage of something like 200x43 is the small footprint when you put it down.
Also, its can be made with a better slicing characteristic (flat profile).

Both of these are useful in a line-kife, or a "utility" knife @home.

215x54 is actually a great profile on a 210 because it has proper
hand clearance, most w/ lesser height are more like santoku 46-47
they are stuck in "uncanny valley" of being neither her nor there.
 

CiderBear

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The advantage of something like 200x43 is the small footprint when you put it down.
Also, its can be made with a better slicing characteristic (flat profile).

Both of these are useful in a line-kife, or a "utility" knife @home.

215x54 is actually a great profile on a 210 because it has proper
hand clearance, most w/ lesser height are more like santoku 46-47
they are stuck in "uncanny valley" of being neither her nor there.
I agree with your assessment on the profile completely. The 54mm height and pointy tip makes the knife really fun to use, plus it's got a bit of heft to it, too, so it still feels like using a "pwoper" knife.



I'm just a bit hesitant that a 205x50 knife at 160g would feel more like a giant petty and not a small gyuto. Hmmmm.

I don't know why I even care about blade height tbh. My hand size is probably in the 2th percentile here...

@daveb I should turn that like into a ringtone

@MarkC thank you. How much does the Hinoura weight?
 

MarkC

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I agree with your assessment on the profile completely. The 54mm height and pointy tip makes the knife really fun to use, plus it's got a bit of heft to it, too, so it still feels like using a "pwoper" knife.



I'm just a bit hesitant that a 205x50 knife at 160g would feel more like a giant petty and not a small gyuto. Hmmmm.

I don't know why I even care about blade height tbh. My hand size is probably in the 2th percentile here...

@daveb I should turn that like into a ringtone

@MarkC thank you. How much does the Hinoura weight?
160 grams. 190mm from the handle to the tip / 49mm tall.
 

rob

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While not the obvious choice for bulk prep i love my 180mm knives.

Light,nimble and great for more detailed work. Also fun to use and ideal for changing things up.

IMG_E8802.jpg
 

Benuser

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What are the pros and cons between a 180mm gyuto and 180mm santoku?
Tip on gyuto is higher. When a santoku isn't only used for push-cutting, expect the tip to get damaged. E.g. when used for 'guillotine and glide'.
Make sure the gyuto isn't too narrow.
I like the Masahiro VC a lot.
 

Michi

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When a santoku isn't only used for push-cutting, expect the tip to get damaged.
I agree; that's my biggest gripe about Santokus. A tall Gyuto of the same length will do everything a Santoku will do, but better. And, if I really want to go for the full-on veggie chopping experience, a Nakiri is the knife to use instead. With a Santoku, I can't rock well, I can't glide on the board well, and I can't chop well unless I don't mind accordions.

A Santoku tries to be too many knives at once and ends up being only "so-so" at the things you would do with the knives it is trying to replace. It's a compromise that almost works, but not quite.

If you can have only one knife, it shouldn't be a Santoku, IMO. Gyutos are lauded as the one "universal" knife for a reason.
 

NO ChoP!

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I have a few knives I used as line knives when I was running ala carte. Lately I've been relegated to running banquets and have much larger cutting boards at my disposal, so these have been collecting dust, unfortunately.
 

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M1k3

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I agree; that's my biggest gripe about Santokus. A tall Gyuto of the same length will do everything a Santoku will do, but better. And, if I really want to go for the full-on veggie chopping experience, a Nakiri is the knife to use instead. With a Santoku, I can't rock well, I can't glide on the board well, and I can't chop well unless I don't mind accordions.

A Santoku tries to be too many knives at once and ends up being only "so-so" at the things you would do with the knives it is trying to replace. It's a compromise that almost works, but not quite.

If you can have only one knife, it shouldn't be a Santoku, IMO. Gyutos are lauded as the one "universal" knife for a reason.
Gyuto/Chef Knife, jack of all trades. Everything is specialized in comparison.
 
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