Thoughts on these two Honyaki’s

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ThaFurnace

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Hi,

I’ve been a lurker for a while, and apart from buying the Jelle Hazenbergs from BST a few days ago, haven’t had much active time on the forum. This is quickly changing!

As I’ve travelled to Japan more and more for work in recent years, I’ve suddenly found myself starting to collect better and better knives. I’m still nowhere near the knowledge (or inventory level) of some of you guys, but given I’m starting to go beyond the $1000 mark per knife, would definitely love to poll the community so I don’t end up in the more money than brains club.

I ran across these two and was wondering if anyone has experience, thoughts, or comparable alternatives.

Second, I’m a lefty, and am having a really hard time finding a nicer in-stock LH Yanagiba. Any ideas?

Thanks!

ThaFurnace

http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com/copy-of-yoshikazu-ikeda-honyaki-270mm-gyuto-oil-qu.html


https://hitohira-japan.com/collections/in-stock-1/products/dea-030-fa240
 
Welcome! If you love collecting honyaki, then Ikeda-san and Shiraki-san's work are almost must have. Personally I am not that big of a fan for fuji moons, they cost like 600 USD extra. But in general those two are the top of the top knives, if you have spare money, I will say go for it.
 
I have both of these knives. Both excellent but very different knives, entirely depends on your preference
 
Gjackson98 said:
Khashy, did you end up using those two? If so how would you rate the functionality?
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Thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

These would indeed be my first Honyaki’s. I very much enjoy the intersection of art and function, which is why these stood out for me, especially the one from hitohara.

Would love some thoughts on the functionality difference of the knives as well. Thanks!
 
Gjackson98 said:
Welcome! If you love collecting honyaki, then Ikeda-san and Shiraki-san's work are almost must have. Personally I am not that big of a fan for fuji moons, they cost like 600 USD extra. But in general those two are the top of the top knives, if you have spare money, I will say go for it.
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More than $600 extra I think. I have owned both those knives as regular honyakis in 240mm and the more expensive one was 1k even.
 
dwalker said:
More than $600 extra I think. I have owned both those knives as regular honyakis in 240mm and the more expensive one was 1k even.
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Right on, I said 600 to be on the safe end, in case people jump on me lol. I have collected a few honyaki, but my skill level is not there yet to use any. How would you rate their functionalities?
Personally I have only used Ikeda and shiraki's sanmai knives.
 
I love Ikeda's white 3 steel. It's robust grind, sharpenability, and edge holding keeps it on my block. It is an excellent choice. The Shiraki was excellent as well but I sold it to finance others. Can't go wrong with either.
 
Gjackson98 said:
Khashy, did you end up using those two? If so how would you rate the functionality?
Click to expand...

I have not used the wide bevel mount fuji as I don't think I would ever be able to get the same polish back. I have used the equivalent wavy hamon knife though. If you want to get an idea of that knife's performance, do some research about the old Konosuke blue2 honyakis - it's the same knife just the mount fuji has a much prettier hamon.

The White3 Ikeda mount fuji is a faultless knife, the grind is impeccable and the profile is sweet. In terms of steel, if you didn't know what it was, you'd bet your top dollar that it was white1/2 or a blue steel - that's how good it is.
 
Welcome. I can not help it, but I find the Moon & Fuji thing something that is made for western market that finds it cool. I find $2000 simply too much - even for a honyaki. I can not even start to understand the §2500 for oil quenched Shirogami #3. Since the blade is coated we can not even judge the level of the finish well. More and more I am turning towads 'normal' JP knvies at 'normal' prices where I do not try to persuade myself that it was all done in a traditional way, but still get excellent performance. Should I ever consider getting a knife in this price range, than I would go for a custom from a western maker whose work I like.
 
Wait a second. that Tsubaya version has a Full Moon on one side and a Crescent Moon on the other?
Im starting to believe that the moon is not a real Hamon differential Heat treat line feature.
I also find it Odd how Japanese Hamon lines are always so clean but western makers hamon lines look like a scribble on the blade.
 
Thank you all for your replies, seems I can't go wrong with either. Matus - I understand your viewpoint too... for me, this is a blend of function and art. I do intend to also keep adding some western customs to the collection as I go along, but there's something to be said for the value of timeless classics.
 
LucasFur said:
Wait a second. that Tsubaya version has a Full Moon on one side and a Crescent Moon on the other?
Im starting to believe that the moon is not a real Hamon differential Heat treat line feature.
I also find it Odd how Japanese Hamon lines are always so clean but western makers hamon lines look like a scribble on the blade.
Click to expand...
We had this conversation before here on KKF, pretty sure they sandblast the moon.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...-with-moon-worth-the-money.37734/#post-563190
 
Personally I think your first honyaki should be either a 300mm ikeda yanagi or 240mm ikeda gyuto, sharpened by ino-san. I have honyakis from both these makers and deeply prefer my ikeda to my shiraki... sorry shiraki, saying this I thinkit's due to the sharpener ino-san being more my style vs kasahara or tosa. Also the sun and moon hamons are dumb, go standard or sanbon sugi hamon if your thinking of something more collectable
 
TF, I would not try to stop you from getting either of these knives, I just mentioned my personal view. We both are looking for somewhat different things so it is natural we would make different choices. I do not doubt that those knives are made well and I respect their makers.
 
LucasFur said:
Wait a second. that Tsubaya version has a Full Moon on one side and a Crescent Moon on the other?
Im starting to believe that the moon is not a real Hamon differential Heat treat line feature.
I also find it Odd how Japanese Hamon lines are always so clean but western makers hamon lines look like a scribble on the blade.
Click to expand...

Different steel and production process. Even European makers can get that kind of hamon, but the wild ones are more 'in' at the moment (I like the look too). There are steels that allow good control of hamon and steels that make it much harder (125SC being a prime example).
 
FWIW, I just picked up a Y. Ikeda white #3 240mm "plain" honyaki gyuto from BST and I can't stop using it. It's not a crazy good cutter (more likely I'm not a crazy good sharpener), but something about it is just fantastic. It feels great in the hand and on the board. I'm considering grabbing a Gesshin Ittetsu white #2 honyaki to compare the difference. I really dig Ikeda's work.
 
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ashy2classy said:
FWIW, I just picked up a Y. Ikeda white #3 240mm "plain" honyaki gyuto from BST and I can't stop using it. It's not a crazy good cutter (more likely I'm not a crazy good sharpener), but something about it is just fantastic. It feels great in the hand and on the board. I'm considering grabbing a Gesshin Ittetsu white #2 honyaki to compare the difference. I really dig Ikeda's work.
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Ikeda is the best out there right now imho from the four makers I've used. I think he'd be more prominent if his brother wasn't the GOAT. His work is $/$ the best honyaki I think money can buy.
 
labor of love said:
Oh yeah. Ittetsu honyaki looks sweet. Ashy, if your plan materializes I’d love to hear your thoughts on both knives comparatively.
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I got an Ittetsu honyaki suji - nothing can touch it, have used it for 4-5 months and still holding edge with some minor touch ups.

I'll say go with the one who's geometry and grind fits your style best, until you figure this out, IMO, you are buying for looks
 
Anton said:
I got an Ittetsu honyaki suji - nothing can touch it, have used it for 4-5 months and still holding edge with some minor touch ups.

I'll say go with the one who's geometry and grind fits your style best, until you figure this out, IMO, you are buying for looks
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Thanks everyone. Between the two, doesn’t seem I can make a wrong choice. My game plan: I’m local to Bernal, so I’ll try to go see the knife in person on Saturday. In the meantime, I’m also in touch with the Shiraki seller and will try to get some HD photos of the actual knife I would get, and move up to their 270mm version for consideration.

Now... LH Yanagiba.
 
@Anton I always go with blade shape, grind and other specs and measurements I can gather online. I am interested in hearing more about how some of these honyakis compare on the stones, edge taking, edge retention, toughness etc etc...
 
My feedback, limited by my amateur home kitchen approach, and also only have 3 of these now. Used at separate times in some cases, in other words no side by side for all these

Edge Retention

1. Ashi - JKI
2. Gesshin Ittetsu - JKI
3. Ikeda - Bernal
4. Mizuno - JCK
5. Shiraki - K&S

On the boards: feedback, feel, overall performance

1. Ashi/Ikeda
2. Mizuno
3. Ittetsu
4. Shiraki

Fit and Finish: not just aesthetics

1. Gesshin Ittetsu
2. Ikeda
3. Ashi
4. Shiraki
5. Mizuno

Keenest edge - can't really compare this as I've never sharpened all these at once with same progression and same skill/stones, frankly not sure how someone could compare, I would say at least 90% of all stone/skill/elements would need to be the same.

But from foggy memory and different sharpening sessions:

1. Ashi / Mizuno
2. Ikeda
3. Ittetsu

Best feedback in stones:

Ashi and Ittetsu - at least the best response to my skills and stones being used, but again, I feel this one is a bit pointless. Combination of stones, but mostly Akapin, aizu, Hakka

OA favorite: Ashi, closely followed by Mizuno - but this is influenced by profile and grind as well, and work put into these to be what they should have been from maker

A fun exercise would be to send a set of these to Jon and have him do a side by side sharpening session to properly compare - if someone wants to send an Ikeda and Shiraki to him I'll send my Ashi and Mizuno...

I included the retailers where these knives where acquired from as over time I find this is as important as the maker for these type of knives, for reasons discussed a plenty. Just my opinion
 
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