it is not after the first steelingIf you detect a burr after the first steeling.
maybe after 12 times or more of doing 12 strokes each side
it is not after the first steelingIf you detect a burr after the first steeling.
it is not after the first steeling
maybe after 12 times or more of doing 12 strokes each side
Three weeks without steeling is goodabout 3 weeks with heavy usage and no touch ups
with steeling i would say with hevy usage of the knife again about 2 and half months or 3 something like thatThree weeks without steeling is good
And how long does the edge last with steeling?
this is a photo posted by @Kawa at the thread hereThat bright line looks like steeled at a high angle. A high angle and pressure will wear off the edge after some time. Steeling with light pressure, only a little higher than the sharpening angle should last longer.
But where is the burr?
Do you say that what you see in that photo is not a burr?this is what the steeling with the rough wusthof honing rod does after a long time of steeling
Yes, parallel sunlight can show the described effect. Lamps on short distance don't do that.the first bevel would be aiming more towards the ground in this picture so the light will have a harder time shining there.
natto my friend I am very thankful for your patience and friendlinessHow do you like that steel from your experience? Which edge feels better?
kawa is that you on the motorcycle?I think we misunderstand eachother.
R0bz is showing one of my 2 pictures. I made a post showing the left and right side next to eachother, both with the flashlight trick. This is the side with burr, the other side is clean.
This is an obvious picture, but I think I also post a picture with more practical burr leftovers on a different knife, seeing onlyh little traces of burr light up
I have not been steeling one side only
natto my friend I am very thankful for your patience and friendliness
in your opinion should i recontinue the use of the grooved Wusthof honing rod to enlong the sharpness of the cleaver until full sharpening on a stone ?
also, why is the dickoron micro recommended as the best and not let's say a dickoron micro vs the dickoron polish vs the dickoron sapphire cut?
thank you for the explanation but I finish the knife at 800 I want a lot of bite for tomatoesA normal Wisthof steeling rod is coarse, like in the 300-600 range?
You don't want to steel your 3000 finished knife with a 300 gritt steel, right?
what do you mean by "fine enough not to scratch the edge back to life ?"The micro just is in that sweetspot: coarse enough to touch up a worn knife, fine enough not to scratch the edge back to life
thank you for the explanation but I finish the knife at 800 I want a lot of bite for tomatoes
A normal Wisthof steeling rod is coarse, like in the 300-600 range? i do not know in what range is it
what do you mean by "fine enough not to scratch the edge back to life ?"
Autsch!I think we misunderstand eachother.
R0bz is showing one of my 2 pictures.
kawa is that you on the motorcycle?
you are touching the road did it do something to you awsome picture?
so from what you say i do not have a good reason to buy a dickoron micro?If you finish all your knives on 800 gritt, I think your Wusthof is just fine.
I dont see a reason why you need an extra fine rod for a 800 gritt finished knive.
The other way around would be a waste in my opinion: If you finish at 3-6000 range, then you dont want to steel with a 400 gritt rod. It destroys al the polishing you have done in one pass. Thats what I mean with the last part.
i do not know @Benuser is the one who says to me that he recommends i shall only use a dickoron micro and that that he would refrain from the wusthof rod, maybe you can ask him and understand why and then you can explain meThe Dickeron micro is good for a specific small group of users I believe:
- You have a soft steel knive (on hard Jknives a steel rod can do harm)
- You finish that soft steel knive at a slightly higher gritt, so you want a corresponding steeling rod.
Not many people are in this combination I think. I'm thinking butchers maybe with their quality, razer sharp boning knives...?
You finish at 800 gritt. Why would you use a rod that is way finer? I dont see the logic in that.
But im here to learn aswell
kawa look at his explanation herei do not know @Benuser is the one who says to me that he recommends i shall only use a dickoron micro and that that he would refrain from the wusthof rod, maybe you can ask him and understand why and then you can explain me
that is why i am looking into the dickoron micro and asking if i should get 1 or it is not worth for me because i finish the knives at 800 gritkawa look at his explanation here
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/chinese-cleaver-questions.56533/post-867644With pressure: you mill a new, coarse edge at a probably much higher angle on top of the old one without deburring it, so it's life span will be very short.
With little pressure you create a wire edge, a special case of a burr, on top of the old edge. Very sharp, until it comes into contact with the board and folds over the edge, which is instantly blunt like a butter knife, or breaks leaving a moonscape-like edge behind
thank you @Kawa for this detailed explanationFrom what I see he explains what a coarse honing rod does and what the most common flaws are.
Many people who dont sharpen their own knives or have any knowledge on knives think 'they sharpen with a honing rod'
And dont argue with them 'because they have been doing this for over 20 years and their knive is still razor sharp'... you know this kind of people.
I bet these people all use a too high angle with a rod on soft steel and create a 'micro' bevel on top on their edge, creating a sharp feeling.
If you look closely to their knives, there isnt a bevel left, only a steeled micro edge. Because they have been doing it wrong for years.
The Dickeron Micro can do the same, just slower.
It about the same as: can you repair a chipped knife on a 8000 stone? Yes, but very very slowly..
But, you dont want to use a (steel) honing rod to create a new first bevel due to overangling... Thats wrong usage of a (steel) honing rod.
You should hit the exact same angle as your bevel is, realigning the rolled over edge (soft steel does this).
To me, it would make no sence to finish sharpening on 800 gritt and then realign the rolled over edge with a much finer rod.
It is still better then the opposite: finishing a knive on 3000 gritt or higher and then regularly use a rod of 300 gritt to realigh... You might aswell drop your fine stones..
thank you @Kawa for this detailed explanation
from what science of sharp information both the dickoron micro and a wushof grooved steel they both create a microbevel
https://scienceofsharp.com/2018/08/22/what-does-steeling-do-part-1/
@Kawa this is exactly what it does according to science of sharpI bet these people all use a too high angle with a rod on soft steel and create a 'micro' bevel on top on their edge, creating a sharp feeling.
I have a Dickoron Polish as well and found that it works well with carbon Sabs provided it's being used in time — as with all fine rods: before you notice any diminishing performance.I have the dickeron polished, and it doensn't do much for me. Maybe when you use it daily after a fresh edge, but you cant get your edge back to life when it is half worn.
I have a Dickoron Polish as well and found that it works well with carbon Sabs provided it's being used in time — as with all fine rods: before you notice any diminishing performance.
The advantage is exactly in not doing much. That said, I wouldn't use any honing after use of the blade, but rather prior to it. There's some self-restoring taking place.
@Benuser do you still recommend I get a dickoron micro or do you agree with what @Kawa has stated?If you finish all your knives on 800 gritt, I think your Wusthof is just fine.
I dont see a reason why you need an extra fine rod for a 800 gritt finished knive.
The other way around would be a waste in my opinion: If you finish at 3-6000 range, then you dont want to steel with a 400 gritt rod. It destroys al the polishing you have done in one pass. Thats what I mean with the last part.
@Kawa do you use the steel with the knife towards your hand? or do you use it away from your hand?I only use a rod on soft crap stainless steel that my wife uses. She doesn't want to be carefull with knives, so she doesn't want any better.
I will try the polished rod more often and earlier on her knives (my beaters) and see what it does
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