Toyama Dammy DIY

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If your bevel has a constant angle, the shinogi is where the thickness of the knife on the bevel reaches the thickness of the rest of the knife, which would tend toward the edge in the presence of distal taper, no?
Correct, but I said "if the grind gets thinner", meaning "if the bevel angle changes".
 
Also... if you want to be precise about semantics, it might be worth understanding the etymology of "shinogi". My understanding is that its 'original' culinary context is from single-bevel Japanese cooking knives... and that was borrowed from tanto.

The word refers the angular transition from the blade road (kireha) to the face/flat (hira). This as much a geometrical (cross-sectional profile) choice as it is a grinding choice. Does the word still have a meaning in grinds where the surfaces are highly blended? Although we have a feel for what shinogi means in that context, I'd argue that is down to the evolution of language. It is not some fundamental property of all grinds.

Not all knives have a shinogi... and the location where grinding ends isn't necessarily always a shinogi either.
 
@labor of love

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Still tinkering, can’t seem to make up my mind. Maybe full etching is better after all?

Also, there’s skull in the patten at lower 1/3 near spine. He has one eye in the first pic., turned into two eyes in the second photo, can anybody see it?
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Also, there’s skull in the patten at lower 1/3 near spine. He has one eye in the first pic., turned into two eyes in the second photo, can anybody see it?
Sure, in the same way that I can see the various constellations - i.e. with a large amount of imagination/kidding myself...
 
Still tinkering, can’t seem to make up my mind. Maybe full etching is better after all?

Also, there’s skull in the patten at lower 1/3 near spine. He has one eye in the first pic., turned into two eyes in the second photo, can anybody see it?
View attachment 94875View attachment 94876
Skeletor!
Has Beastman offered to buy it off you?
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The knife has been slaying veggies including greens, carrots & potato’s, seems to out-cut my Toyama, but I haven’t done head to head shoot out. The edge is thinner as a result of all the tinkering of surface finish & re-grinding etc.

Today’s test is the most critical thou., it’s the virgin cutting session on semi-frozen meat, the very first time. This has been the Achilles heel of my Toyama.

I cut through a good chunk of half frozen icy-beef, I could hear the crunching/crushing sound of the ice crystals with each slice, pretty scary sounding but the edge survived without micro chipping. You can see some of the beef slices are still frozen. I need to do it a few more times to know for sure thou. This is not an made-up test, this is what I do every day, an absolute necessity for my meal prep. Microwave thawing, especially using the cook instead of the slow thawing function, is uneven. Thus, leaving some ice is necessary to avoid partially cooked meat.

The B2 Core has a Hardness of 60/61, perhaps conservative heat treat on hardness resulting higher toughness with trade-off to edge retention? As a home cook, I don’t care much about edge retention, so this worked out for me.
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I didn’t want to commit for a new handle until the performance checked out. Now I am making him a new pair of shoes to match the Toyama iron-clad.

I can’t say enough good things about the handle maker disk on the new 1x30 variable-speed sander. This morning before work, it made quick work (15 min) out of the D-handle shaping, with lines that are much more crisp than the hand-made version currently on the Toyama. Below is the first pass at 60 grit:
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Here’s the project completion & specs:

Toyama:
> Edge length 210mm
> Heel height 49mm
> Spine thickness 3.5mm
> Weight 182g
> Asymmetrical Hi-convex, right bias.

Toyama-like DIY:
> Edge length 222mm
> Heel height 48mm
> Spine thickness 4mm
> Weight 186g
> Asymmetrical Hi-convex, right bias.

DIY on top/ Toyama bottom
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Tail end vs. stock D-handle:
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Choil shot: DIY
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Choil shot: Toyama
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Looks nice! The choil looks more like a Mazaki/Masashi mix than a Toyama though. The choil could be misleading.

Mazaki:
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Masashi:
View attachment 95459

Thanks! You are right, it does. Also agree that Choil shot is misleading, but it’s the #1 request, people always ask for Choil shots.

To get a real feeling of knife grind, besides taking caliper & measure everywhere, is to run the finders from spine to edge, do it all over the entire length of the blade. Feels like I’ve thinned it down to a Toyama or thinner behind edge, yet but with more convexity on the right side. This is only made possible because the stock was 240mm, which starts out with a thicker spine.
 
Does the fact that the DIY outcuts the real one mean the real toyama has to go? :O

The choil at least makes it look like it is substantially thinner ~5mm behind the edge, and then becomes thicker down towards the spine.

Such a cool project
 
Yep. Definitely looks like an exceptional performer to me.

Sometimes I hope we have the fancy 3D laser scanner in the movie. 😂

Thanks! Totally, the scanners that come with 3D printer these days are pretty cheap, I would love to see it if someone 3D-scans the top kitchen knives, so we can the 3D topology drawings that can be rotated 360.
 
Does the fact that the DIY outcuts the real one mean the real toyama has to go? :O

This question scares me, I am afraid that the real Toyama might lose 😱, and the principle that I can not keep knives outside of knife block still stands.

Luckily, my knife block decided to have a baby, & the baby sleeps out of sight, in the coffee nook 😍😂
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@ma_sha1

Do you mind posting the techniques and tutorials behind your slight finger notch if/when you cut it into your DIYama? I'm wanting to do the same to some of my knives.
 
@ma_sha1

Do you mind posting the techniques and tutorials behind your slight finger notch if/when you cut it into your DIYama? I'm wanting to do the same to some of my knives.

I used one of these in my drill press, about 9mm diameter, then hold the knife & pull toward the grinding stone & go at it. Take it slow, as a slip will mess up the knife, go right through the protective taps.

It’s slow & risky, I only do it if I have to. I did it to the Toyama due to the short neck. For the DIY, I left enough neck for my finger, no need for a TF notch.

Without a drill press, you’ll need to mount your drill on something so it won’t move.
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Mr. potato top is back! 🕺🏼🕺🏼🕺🏼

When I said it failed on the potato top grind, it’s because I wasn’t able to feel it, but I didn’t actually do any measurements. I started to doubt myself as I couldn’t feel the Toyama potato topology either. Now, after extensive analysis, I am happy to report that the potato-top grind is real, & I can prove it!

To test this, get a metal ruler, preferably the triangle type that’s more resistant to warping. Lay it on the middle of the bevel of your Toyama iron-clad or Kato WH, while allowing the knife to lay on a flat surface as shown in photo #1 below.

Lift the ruler up on the edge of the ruler over the potato top area with back-lighting. If the potato top grind is there, you should be able to see lights coming through from both side of the potato top.

With that, I am able to prove, not only my Toyama iron-clad has the potato top grind topography, My Toyama-like DIY does as well, & it’s even more pronounced.

Metal ruler for gap analysis
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Toyama iron-clad, the dark area with no lights coming through is the potato top.
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Toyama-like DIY Dammy, with slightly more pronounced potato top
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Came across an earlier thread where Asteger described the Kato potato grind as “v” grind. It’s a bit mis leading as the the term has been used for symmetrical flat grind bevels, but the picture with red marked shinogi may be of help.

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