I just did. Have fun with the knife!
UK/European Passaround!
- Thread starter Dan P.
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I just did. Have fun with the knife!
The knife should reach me in a day or two. Unluckily I have just got some nasty virus tha needed just hours to shoot me down and it will be a few days until I will be able to enjoy the knife. Please allow for a few days of delay before the knife will move on to next participant.
I had the knife for almost one week and passed it on to Matus, yesterday.
First things first: performance. I used the knife in a home kitchen. The knife came with a very nice and aggressive edge out of the box. It did perform very well at any given task: pumpkin, potatoes, onions, grean beans, carrots, tomatoes, chicken. With the meat there was some light blue patina forming, with onions some minor smell and little discoloration of the onions was noticeable (quite normal, other carbons are much worse on that). Though the edge is quite thinly ground, the knife doesnt feel too feeble/light. It is very nimble and I liked the way it is balanced. There was almost no sticking or wedging as sometimes happens with denser food like carrots or potatoes. I cannot comment much on edge retention, as there was not enough use to really test it. The edge was still very keen at the end and I couldnt see any diminishing. Maybe some participant can put it through a whole shift in a professional environment to see how she stands up to it. The knife has a very nice distal taper and the tip is thin enough to fly through detail-work like slicing onions very finely. I have also rock-chopped some herbs, which was no problem with the geometry. Push- and draw-cuts worked very well alike.
Fit&finish: The knife shows a very nice hamon-line which is clearly visible, but not as distinct as seen in other steels/from other makers (e.g. M.Rader, C. Anderson). Compared to most knifes I have or had the handle is rather small/short. In terms of function it works quite well, nothing to complain about. Personally Id wished for a bigger handle. There was a light split/gap in the handle towards the bolster and some minor scuffs here and there. Having in mind that this is a passaround knife, the overall appearance to me was rather functional than top-notch. I see some real potential though, if youre heading into this direction (fancier woods, more contrast to the hamon, etc.).
If I had to draw a conclusion, Id say that the knife is a very good cutter at a very reasonable price point. I wouldnt hesitate to recommend it. As I have rather big hands, Id personally prefer some more height at the heel and a bigger/larger/beefier handle. But that's just me, so please take everything above with a grain of salt.
Thanks for giving me the chance of testing the knife.
Jürgen
First things first: performance. I used the knife in a home kitchen. The knife came with a very nice and aggressive edge out of the box. It did perform very well at any given task: pumpkin, potatoes, onions, grean beans, carrots, tomatoes, chicken. With the meat there was some light blue patina forming, with onions some minor smell and little discoloration of the onions was noticeable (quite normal, other carbons are much worse on that). Though the edge is quite thinly ground, the knife doesnt feel too feeble/light. It is very nimble and I liked the way it is balanced. There was almost no sticking or wedging as sometimes happens with denser food like carrots or potatoes. I cannot comment much on edge retention, as there was not enough use to really test it. The edge was still very keen at the end and I couldnt see any diminishing. Maybe some participant can put it through a whole shift in a professional environment to see how she stands up to it. The knife has a very nice distal taper and the tip is thin enough to fly through detail-work like slicing onions very finely. I have also rock-chopped some herbs, which was no problem with the geometry. Push- and draw-cuts worked very well alike.
Fit&finish: The knife shows a very nice hamon-line which is clearly visible, but not as distinct as seen in other steels/from other makers (e.g. M.Rader, C. Anderson). Compared to most knifes I have or had the handle is rather small/short. In terms of function it works quite well, nothing to complain about. Personally Id wished for a bigger handle. There was a light split/gap in the handle towards the bolster and some minor scuffs here and there. Having in mind that this is a passaround knife, the overall appearance to me was rather functional than top-notch. I see some real potential though, if youre heading into this direction (fancier woods, more contrast to the hamon, etc.).
If I had to draw a conclusion, Id say that the knife is a very good cutter at a very reasonable price point. I wouldnt hesitate to recommend it. As I have rather big hands, Id personally prefer some more height at the heel and a bigger/larger/beefier handle. But that's just me, so please take everything above with a grain of salt.
Thanks for giving me the chance of testing the knife.
Jürgen
Thanks Dan, getting better. But it was tough today to watch my wife and daughter to enjoy that great Italian pasta in Buon Giorno (Aalen) while I was having a piece of baguette and black tea (with sugar to get my blood sugar level back on track for a while) 
More importantly - the knife waited for me at home and it was delivered 100% perfect. I will use it over the course of the coming week and send it to krakorak on Saturday. I will post my impressions (and some photos if that is OK) here.
More importantly - the knife waited for me at home and it was delivered 100% perfect. I will use it over the course of the coming week and send it to krakorak on Saturday. I will post my impressions (and some photos if that is OK) here.
Dan P.
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Glad that you are getting better.
Post as many impressions and photos as you like!
For the record, when I got this knife back from bender, I thought about putting on a new handle, as I found the original to be quite small. Certainly smaller than I would now send out a knife. In the event I thought it would be better to get the knife back in circulation. I find it very hard to make the "palm contoured" type handle consistent, and even making a batch they can vary quite widely. I have also had feedback concerning the contoured handle that the contours just don't fit the customers hand, so I think I might go for a less contoured, more conical handle in future.
Oh, also the handle developed a crack. I have had this happen on a few blackwood handles, and so I won't be using it any more.
Post as many impressions and photos as you like!
For the record, when I got this knife back from bender, I thought about putting on a new handle, as I found the original to be quite small. Certainly smaller than I would now send out a knife. In the event I thought it would be better to get the knife back in circulation. I find it very hard to make the "palm contoured" type handle consistent, and even making a batch they can vary quite widely. I have also had feedback concerning the contoured handle that the contours just don't fit the customers hand, so I think I might go for a less contoured, more conical handle in future.
Oh, also the handle developed a crack. I have had this happen on a few blackwood handles, and so I won't be using it any more.
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Not willing to forestall my later review, but please don't alter the balance when you change the handle!
Sooo, the knife is all packed up and if everything goes as planned will be shipped to Krakorak tomorrow.
Here is my little feedback:
Handle
It has been mentioned so just briefly - yes, the handle needs to be larger - adding 10% on all 3 directions would be a good start. The shape is fine and functional. But I find one more point as important. This is an integral knife, but I find that the bolster sits too close to the heel. Let me demonstrate it with few photographs what I mean. I will be holding the knife in my left hand as I had the camera in the right
When I hold a knife with a pinch grip - I have the tip of my index finger resting on the heel (approx like this):
That means that if the bolster (front edge of it) sits too close to the heel, my thumb will be resting exactly on that edge what is OK if the bolster is tapered in some way, but if there is an edge the grip is not as secure or comfortable:
Here for comparison my Billipp gyuto - here the tang is strongly tapered and the handle starts rather narrow (I could have used a knife with a WA handle instead - that would serve the same purpose)
I would say - keeping the shape of the integral bolster one could either 'pull it back' or put a radius on the choil. Getting some 10 - 15 mm between the heel and the bolster edge would be worth testing I think.
Quick size comparison:
OK, let's move to the relevant stuff
Grind & Profile
First of all - let me say that I really enjoyed the way the knife is ground - very consistent convex grind - there are basically no flat areas to be found. What I found interesting is that the grind gets continuously thinner from the heel towards the tip. I have measured the blade thickness at different locations and confirmed that. The knife has some exceptional distal taper and very thin tip.
The profile has about the ideal (for me) balance of belly towards the tip and nice flat spot at the heel. I appreciated the angle between the cutting edge and handle (on many Japanese gyutos these are nearly parallel). The slight 'wave' on the spine really ads to the elegance of the knife.
Performance
The knife is mid-weight for a 240mm gyuto at around 200g. It felt just right in hand with balance point some 3cm from the heel. In a pinch grip this resulted in a sufficient front-forward weight distribution, so that the tip would not feel 'weightless', but not as nose heavy as e.g. Kato 240 does (that thing is a guillotine).
I also found that the knife had better food release than I would have expected. Not that everything would magically fall off, but it did not feel like stuff is sticking with force the to blade.
I did sharpen the knife upon arrival and I apologise for putting some light scratches on the blade. I used a bit imbalanced sharpening setup - JNS 300 followed directly by Gesshin Synthetic Natural. The 300 stone was absolutely not necessary, but I did not want to get the 2000 (at that point ready for passaround) wet. The Synthetic Natural leaves excellent edge (I love this stone for finishing cutting edge) and it was pure joy to use the knife afterwards.
I used it with carrots, tomatoes, potatoes, onion, zucchini, fresh chilly. It worked flawlessly with slicing or chopping. I was thoroughly impressed. I can not say much to edge holding after 1 week of light use, the knife still shaves and I would not expect otherwise. I did get some slight browning of onions (remember, the knife was freshly re-finished by Dan, so it had not patina) if one would allow the onion juice sit on blade for 10-20 seconds. BUt it was mild (less than iron clad knives before patina sets in). The knife gained barely any patina - advantage of a monosteel design.
The knife has medium stiffness - only the very tip would show some flexing, but it is not excessive and actually surprisingly stiff given how thin it is. I do like stiff knives and this one would be stiff enough for me. It is comparable to my Billipp gyuto in this regard.
Summary
With updated handle I would not hesitate to use a gyuto from Dan as my only gyuto. I really loved the profile, grind and performance and I think the knife is well worth what Dan is selling these for - even with the weak
Thank you Dan for giving us the chance to try your knife
Here is my little feedback:
Handle
It has been mentioned so just briefly - yes, the handle needs to be larger - adding 10% on all 3 directions would be a good start. The shape is fine and functional. But I find one more point as important. This is an integral knife, but I find that the bolster sits too close to the heel. Let me demonstrate it with few photographs what I mean. I will be holding the knife in my left hand as I had the camera in the right
When I hold a knife with a pinch grip - I have the tip of my index finger resting on the heel (approx like this):
That means that if the bolster (front edge of it) sits too close to the heel, my thumb will be resting exactly on that edge what is OK if the bolster is tapered in some way, but if there is an edge the grip is not as secure or comfortable:
Here for comparison my Billipp gyuto - here the tang is strongly tapered and the handle starts rather narrow (I could have used a knife with a WA handle instead - that would serve the same purpose)
I would say - keeping the shape of the integral bolster one could either 'pull it back' or put a radius on the choil. Getting some 10 - 15 mm between the heel and the bolster edge would be worth testing I think.
Quick size comparison:
OK, let's move to the relevant stuff
Grind & Profile
First of all - let me say that I really enjoyed the way the knife is ground - very consistent convex grind - there are basically no flat areas to be found. What I found interesting is that the grind gets continuously thinner from the heel towards the tip. I have measured the blade thickness at different locations and confirmed that. The knife has some exceptional distal taper and very thin tip.
The profile has about the ideal (for me) balance of belly towards the tip and nice flat spot at the heel. I appreciated the angle between the cutting edge and handle (on many Japanese gyutos these are nearly parallel). The slight 'wave' on the spine really ads to the elegance of the knife.
Performance
The knife is mid-weight for a 240mm gyuto at around 200g. It felt just right in hand with balance point some 3cm from the heel. In a pinch grip this resulted in a sufficient front-forward weight distribution, so that the tip would not feel 'weightless', but not as nose heavy as e.g. Kato 240 does (that thing is a guillotine).
I also found that the knife had better food release than I would have expected. Not that everything would magically fall off, but it did not feel like stuff is sticking with force the to blade.
I did sharpen the knife upon arrival and I apologise for putting some light scratches on the blade. I used a bit imbalanced sharpening setup - JNS 300 followed directly by Gesshin Synthetic Natural. The 300 stone was absolutely not necessary, but I did not want to get the 2000 (at that point ready for passaround) wet. The Synthetic Natural leaves excellent edge (I love this stone for finishing cutting edge) and it was pure joy to use the knife afterwards.
I used it with carrots, tomatoes, potatoes, onion, zucchini, fresh chilly. It worked flawlessly with slicing or chopping. I was thoroughly impressed. I can not say much to edge holding after 1 week of light use, the knife still shaves and I would not expect otherwise. I did get some slight browning of onions (remember, the knife was freshly re-finished by Dan, so it had not patina) if one would allow the onion juice sit on blade for 10-20 seconds. BUt it was mild (less than iron clad knives before patina sets in). The knife gained barely any patina - advantage of a monosteel design.
The knife has medium stiffness - only the very tip would show some flexing, but it is not excessive and actually surprisingly stiff given how thin it is. I do like stiff knives and this one would be stiff enough for me. It is comparable to my Billipp gyuto in this regard.
Summary
With updated handle I would not hesitate to use a gyuto from Dan as my only gyuto. I really loved the profile, grind and performance and I think the knife is well worth what Dan is selling these for - even with the weak
Thank you Dan for giving us the chance to try your knife
Dan P.
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Thanks for the feedback and wonderful photos, and I'm really glad you (mostly) liked the knife!
I will get back to you soon about the shoulders of the bolster, so prepare yourself for some wobbly photos of wobbly sketches.
I will also be trying out some changes to the final looks of the knife to give as many raw-forged surfaces on the bolster and blade as possible, and I've been experimenting with some changes in handle shape that complement a more as-forged blade. I will post photos as ideas become consolidated.
Thanks again for your review Matus!
I will get back to you soon about the shoulders of the bolster, so prepare yourself for some wobbly photos of wobbly sketches.
I will also be trying out some changes to the final looks of the knife to give as many raw-forged surfaces on the bolster and blade as possible, and I've been experimenting with some changes in handle shape that complement a more as-forged blade. I will post photos as ideas become consolidated.
Thanks again for your review Matus!
Dan, the pleasure is all mine I will be looking forward seen the planned development!
As a matter of fact - your knife impressed me that much, that I took it as an inspiration for my first 240mm gyuto (by-hand-only stock removal, so no integral bolster). It will be many hours of work before that piece of D2 steel can be called a knife.
I will be looking forward seen the planned development!As a matter of fact - your knife impressed me that much, that I took it as an inspiration for my first 240mm gyuto (by-hand-only stock removal, so no integral bolster). It will be many hours of work before that piece of D2 steel can be called a knife.
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What is that about raw-forged surfaces on the blade, Dan?
I'm wondering, probably just a terminology question, but I admired the very smooth contours of it as it is
I'm wondering, probably just a terminology question, but I admired the very smooth contours of it as it is
Dan P.
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Actually Bernard, I think the raw-forged surfaces are very tactile and pleasing to the touch after the scale is removed and a little buffing applied.
What it means in practical terms is a little more careful forging, and less, but again more careful grinding.
What it means in practical terms is a little more careful forging, and less, but again more careful grinding.
Yep, well made kurouchi finish can have lovely 3D structure and also keeps the rust away. So as long as it does not 'get in the way' (full flat grind with kurouchi would be bad as the kurouchi would be causing drag), it is not only good looking (at least to me), but also practical. And as Dan said - if you want to have a nice kurouchi, it requires that that part of the blade is forged to shape, as there will be no grinding taking place.
What is beyond my current knowledge is what causes how different the kurouchi may look. On one side there is kurouchi like e.g. on Kochi (carbon clad) knives - very organic and '3D' and on the other side of the spectra very flat and 'thin' like e.g. on Zakuri knives (or many stainless-clad kurouchi knives).
Don - I am looking forward to see your kurouchi knives
What is beyond my current knowledge is what causes how different the kurouchi may look. On one side there is kurouchi like e.g. on Kochi (carbon clad) knives - very organic and '3D' and on the other side of the spectra very flat and 'thin' like e.g. on Zakuri knives (or many stainless-clad kurouchi knives).
Don - I am looking forward to see your kurouchi knives
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Thanks, Dan and Matus, for your enlightenment!
Dan, thanks. But I must admit that I do not know anything about cold forging - how do you get the cladding to bond with the core steel?
Dan P.
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The cold forging would happen after everything else had been done, to straighten, thin, and give a nice finish. The smoothness of the finish, in my experience, corresponds to the softness of the material and/or the heaviness of the cold forging/planishing blows.
Dan P.
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The forged finish I will be doing will have scale removed, so it won't be kurouchi exactly. I prefer the term "brut de forge". Being in French makes it sounds classy and vaguely culinary.
Thanks for explanation. So you plan something like nashiji finish?
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I love nashiji finish on knives, almost every time when I use my Itinomonn kurouchi nashiji gyuto, I enjoy the nicely 3D structure it does have!
By the way - Dan's gyuto is already in the Czech Republic, will probably be delivered tomorrow...or, sorry, today, its already Tuesday...
By the way - Dan's gyuto is already in the Czech Republic, will probably be delivered tomorrow...or, sorry, today, its already Tuesday
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Just a short update - the knife indeed arrived (in order) on Tuesday and is since yesterday for a few days with a friend of mine (Dan knows...), who is another knife nut, works as a pro chef and will test it a bit as well, I will, of course, post the impressions of both...and send the knife during the second half of the next week to DamageInc...
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Thanks Dan, we already do! I am reallly curious what my friend will say tomorrow when I will get the knife back; but our initial impression were quite similar...
! I am reallly curious what my friend will say tomorrow when I will get the knife back; but our initial impression were quite similar...- Joined
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The knife is back with me, I will send it do DamageInc most likely on Friday, if he will agree...My friend plans to write a review on the knife on a Czech forum and promised to send it to me as soon as it will be finished (hopefully at the wekend), so I will post then his as well as my impressions (the review will be in Czech, not in English, so it wouldn't make much sense to post the direct link here)...
DamageInc
Idiot
I have sent Krakorak my details. Will post here when the knife arrives.
DamageInc
Idiot
I just received the knife.
Some scratch marks high above the bevel in some areas, like someone wanted to thin it, but then changed their minds after a few strokes. Either that, or just sloppy sharpening. Currently, it is not sharp in the slightest, so I will need to sharpen it before use.
Also, the tip is severely rusted. It seems that there was some liquid residue in the wine cork that was put on for protection while shipping. I'll take it off with some red aoto mud and a cork to avoid thinning the tip.
Some scratch marks high above the bevel in some areas, like someone wanted to thin it, but then changed their minds after a few strokes. Either that, or just sloppy sharpening. Currently, it is not sharp in the slightest, so I will need to sharpen it before use.
Also, the tip is severely rusted. It seems that there was some liquid residue in the wine cork that was put on for protection while shipping. I'll take it off with some red aoto mud and a cork to avoid thinning the tip.
Ouch, that hurts. I have also used the cork to ship the knife to Krakorak, but I did not even come to think of what would happen if the cork were to become wet. This is a lesson learned about knife packing I guess. No hydrophobic materials in direct contact with the blade.
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I just received the knife.
Some scratch marks high above the bevel in some areas, like someone wanted to thin it, but then changed their minds after a few strokes. Either that, or just sloppy sharpening. Currently, it is not sharp in the slightest, so I will need to sharpen it before use.
Also, the tip is severely rusted. It seems that there was some liquid residue in the wine cork that was put on for protection while shipping. I'll take it off with some red aoto mud and a cork to avoid thinning the tip.
That's definitely my fault, it has nothing to do with the way Matus shipped the knife to me (it was OK, in this respect), one of the corks he used was lost after I got the knife back from my friend, so I used a new one (honestly, if it would be up to me, I wouldn't use anything to protect the tip, but I just wanted to pack the knife the same way as when I got it as I believed that's the way Dan wishs to protect the knife), but it obviously indeed still contained some liquid residues (that indeed was no old wine cork as I didn't have any, it was only several days old)...I am really sorry for that! And thanks to DamageInc for sorting it out and cleaning the tip!
