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coxhaus

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So, the axe method keeps food from sticking from what I gather here.

I was reading on Worksharp's web site and with the latest Ken Onion attachment you can adjust the belt tension for how much convex you would like.

But it sounds like the knife style overrides the sharpening type if I am understanding this.
 

Jville

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Whoever says food release is only a matter of technique, as meaning grinds of a knife can not create food release, are just trying to sound cool or either stup…endously unaware of the knives out there. I’m not saying that you can’t create food release with technique, but some knives you don’t have too.
 

juice

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Whoever says food release is only a matter of technique, as meaning grinds of a knife can not create food release, are just trying to sound cool or either stup…endously unaware of the knives out there. I’m not saying that you can’t create food release with technique, but some knives you don’t have too.
Nice avatar matching.
 

Bobby2shots

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According to David Holly from KnifeMerchant.com, the Glestain knives are the only Granton-type edges that really work at food release. David's a chef as well as a knife dealer.


Go to the 1:15 mark of this video.

 
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ian

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"This is a single bevel edge?"
"It is, yeah."

🤣🤣

At least you're in the correct thread
Heh, yea.

According to David Holly from KnifeMerchant.com, the Glestain knives are the only granton-type edges, really work at food release. David's a chef as well as a knife dealer.
I can't really tell what you're saying here, but I think a lot of people here agree that most grantons don't do much for food release, but the Glestain grantons work pretty well. (I haven't tried one.)

There are certainly ways to create food release without grantons though.
 

Luftmensch

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Yeah that's just sharpening the edge, not really what people here consider any kind of grind that relates to food release.
This image from a different thread might help explain:
Hey Kip...

"Asymmetrical sharpening - done to counter the steer from above"

How is this done? Is there a more obtuse bevel on the left side (of the image) to counteract the grind on the right side?
 

Kippington

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So, the axe method keeps food from sticking from what I gather here.

I was reading on Worksharp's web site and with the latest Ken Onion attachment you can adjust the belt tension for how much convex you would like.

But it sounds like the knife style overrides the sharpening type if I am understanding this.
Sharpening with a convex bevel is generally reserved for blades that go through tougher jobs than kitchen knives normally do. Although we do a similar thing with microbevels and the like.

What is the axe method?

Hey Kip...

"Asymmetrical sharpening - done to counter the steer from above"

How is this done? Is there a more obtuse bevel on the left side (of the image) to counteract the grind on the right side?
The rest of the explanation is in the original thread:

 
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coxhaus

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Sharpening with a convex bevel is generally reserved for blades that go through tougher jobs than kitchen knives normally do. Although we do a similar thing with microbevels and the like.

What is the axe method?
I agree, but I also have a sneaking suspicion that Coxhaus’s vintage 4-stars are a fair bit thicker behind the (obligatory mention: Ken Onion Worksharp cultivated) edge than some of us here may be accustomed to. Add in what seems a likely preference for a hammer grip and perhaps more downward Texan chopping style force and I’m not envisaging fine slices sticking to a laser in classic sticktion style. It would be uncharitable to suggest that the separation is achieved in a fashion more akin to an axe splintering wood, but I suspect the reality is somewhere inbetween
I am referring to this as the axe method.
 

Oshidashi

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Wondering if anyone here believes a kurouchi or nashiji finish on the blade makes a difference as far as sticktion. At least compared to a thin blade with a mirror finish.

Also, it seems to me sticking is mostly a problem when you want slices to stay together after slicing, all lined up in order and looking pretty, in which case the index finger is likely needed anyway to keep it right. For normal slicing and dicing I simply ignore the phenomenon and let the next slice of product displace the former from the blade face.
 

Matt Jacobs

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I
Wondering if anyone here believes a kurouchi or nashiji finish on the blade makes a difference as far as sticktion. At least compared to a thin blade with a mirror finish.

Also, it seems to me sticking is mostly a problem when you want slices to stay together after slicing, all lined up in order and looking pretty, in which case the index finger is likely needed anyway to keep it right. For normal slicing and dicing I simply ignore the phenomenon and let the next slice of product displace the former from the blade face.
I absolutely think they make a difference. A ton of little things make a huge difference. Carbon steel alone can make a difference with only a little patina. Full flat ground stainless knives are the worst for sticking. Any tweak to the grind or finish gets better for food release in my opinion
 

tcmx3

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Wondering if anyone here believes a kurouchi or nashiji finish on the blade makes a difference as far as sticktion. At least compared to a thin blade with a mirror finish.

Also, it seems to me sticking is mostly a problem when you want slices to stay together after slicing, all lined up in order and looking pretty, in which case the index finger is likely needed anyway to keep it right. For normal slicing and dicing I simply ignore the phenomenon and let the next slice of product displace the former from the blade face.
cant speak about the finish specifically because Ive never tested it directly, but I can say observationally that many Ku/nashiji knives have a shinogi that is elevated over the top of the blade with the ku/nashiji finish such that you actually do get better release than the very flat thinner blades. but this is a geometry issue not a finish issue.

on the issue of kasumi and sticking, I refinish all of my serious users and I cant say that Ive ever had a knife not improve after a bead blast is taken off.
 

esoo

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White 2 steel sucks. Sure it is supposed to get super sharp, but I've never gotten it sharper than any semi-stainless (HD2/SKD), and the fact that edge retention goes "Sharp, Sharp, I'm not cutting" annoys me.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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White 2 steel sucks. Sure it is supposed to get super sharp, but I've never gotten it sharper than any semi-stainless (HD2/SKD), and the fact that edge retention goes "Sharp, Sharp, I'm not cutting" annoys me.
Sharpen white 2 steel at very acute angle will help with edge retention. Like <10 degree per side. But I get you. I like blue 2/1/super steel far better.
 

esoo

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Sharpen white 2 steel at very acute angle will help with edge retention. Like <10 degree per side. But I get you. I like blue 2/1/super steel far better.
Yeah, Blue is a great steel. The Blue 2 I have (Kono MM) is great for sharpening and then it holds that edge forever.

Never used White 1 in a gyuto so my judgement is still out on that.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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Yeah, Blue is a great steel. The Blue 2 I have (Kono MM) is great for sharpening and then it holds that edge forever.

Never used White 1 in a gyuto so my judgement is still out on that.
I sold all my white steels too with exception to the honyakis, but tbh even the white honyakis are not much better. I'm keeping a Shig (steel similar to white) just to appreciate how easy it is to sharpen and how ridiculously sharp it gets.
 

ModRQC

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White is okay. Shouldn’t look for Blue retention out of it. But longevity still depends on technique to a good extent. I’d say surface too but anyone around here could boast a good end grain or hasewaga so… moot point.
 

esoo

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I sold all my white steels too with exception to the honyakis, but tbh even the white honyakis are not much better. I'm keeping a Shig (steel similar to white) just to appreciate how easy it is to sharpen and how ridiculously sharp it gets.
The only White I have left is Tojrio Shirogani. They were cheap ($40CDN each). They make great beaters - they get better than German sharp, but are I guess around 60HRC so take a lot of abuse. I've watched the fiancee spatchcock chicken with them and nothing happens with the edge.
 

Oshidashi

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The best sharpening stones are splash and go with a base. Because people are inherently lazy, especially at the end of a long day. A stone with which you can finish sharpening a knife or two only a couple of minutes after you pull it out of the drawer, is a stone that will be used more often.
 

ian

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A stone with which you can finish sharpening a knife or two only a couple of minutes after you pull it out of the drawer, is a stone that will be used more often.
Wrong thread. 👍

But seriously, the only solution is making your permasoaked soakers just as convenient as your s&g. Def not possible for everyone tho.
 

WiriWiri

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I woke up in an admittedly quite bad mood today and made the inadvisable decision to click on a old JCK email link. It took me to a selection of Takeshi Saji blades

Now Takeshi Saji may be billed ‘the leading knife maker in Takefu city’ - aka the big daddy goldfish in a diminished shoal of minnows - but I have never really been tempted by his knives, despite much urging and availability over the past 15 years or so. They strike me as thick, heavy things with little distal taper, often more concerned with appearance rather than function. Rainbow damascus does look nice admittedly, but I have in mind an image of an old man well connected with Takefu steel corp, bashing the latest pre-laminated billets into something resembling a knife. It’s been suggested by unkind observers - not graceful types like me you understand - that his knives are probably thick because he’s a slack dotard too lazy to bash or wheel out the power hammer more.

He may also be at least slightly blind, or how else do you explain the horror of some of his handles. He makes Mr Itou look like the champion of good taste, which is a remarkable feat in itself. The examples below look like props from a 60s set involving the Joker and Riddler, most likely being sneered at by Adam West in unflattering batsuit

Saji. NO

1628073573467.jpeg
1628073815188.jpeg
 

TokushuKnife

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The best sharpening stones are splash and go with a base. Because people are inherently lazy, especially at the end of a long day. A stone with which you can finish sharpening a knife or two only a couple of minutes after you pull it out of the drawer, is a stone that will be used more often.
I agree mate, have you tried Hap Stanley’s Nano Hone stones? Best splash and go I’ve ever used. Especially 200, 400, and 1000
 

Oshidashi

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Wrong thread. 👍
I was imagining that the disparagement of soaking stones would be an 'unpopular opinion', but maybe it is not. You are right that leaving stones permanently soaking may not be practical for all of us, and it my case leaving them around in a tub for long in our apartment would result in my wife throwing out my babies with the bathwater.
 

ian

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I was imagining that the disparagement of soaking stones would be an 'unpopular opinion', but maybe it is not. You are right that leaving stones permanently soaking may not be practical for all of us, and it my case leaving them around in a tub for long in our apartment would result in my wife throwing out my babies with the bathwater.
You don’t have room for a small plastic container of water? Doesn’t take much more space to store them wet than it does to store them dry. But it does require you to remember to change the water once in a while, unless you’re one of those toilet tank people.
 
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