The combination can elevate the knife. The sharpener can take a good knife and make it excellent or even exceptional. But if the smith doesn’t set the path, the knife might never become what it can.
Unpopular opinions
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McMan
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I would be curious about the economy/process of things…
It would seem to me that the more a smith can get a knife very close to final shape, the more efficient a sharpener can be. If this is true, it would mean that the smith matters a great deal from a production process perspective.
If I’m a sharpener, I’d be appreciative of a smith who delivered consistently shaped blanks, with little variance, that were close to their intended final shape.
I can’t imagine a sharpener being content to grind away forever on a blank that’s more like a blobby slab than an almost-knife. That’s inefficient. Or having to grind blanks that are very different one from the next. Also inefficient.
This is just speculation though… I have no direct knowledge of Japanese production methods.
But I do suspect that many of the decisions we don’t see have to do with production processes, local-level economics, and business relationships.
I also suspect much of the allure of “the smith” comes from conjuring up some romantic vision of a guy laminating by hand, quenching by eye, working by himself, etc. etc. Even if this image isn’t marketed, I think it’s sometimes an assumption.
Do people actually imagine a “smith” supervising a handful of un-named skilled workers that do the forging? My understanding is that “smith” is also understood to be an occupational title that denotes skill enough to teach/supervise others.
It would seem to me that the more a smith can get a knife very close to final shape, the more efficient a sharpener can be. If this is true, it would mean that the smith matters a great deal from a production process perspective.
If I’m a sharpener, I’d be appreciative of a smith who delivered consistently shaped blanks, with little variance, that were close to their intended final shape.
I can’t imagine a sharpener being content to grind away forever on a blank that’s more like a blobby slab than an almost-knife. That’s inefficient. Or having to grind blanks that are very different one from the next. Also inefficient.
This is just speculation though… I have no direct knowledge of Japanese production methods.
But I do suspect that many of the decisions we don’t see have to do with production processes, local-level economics, and business relationships.
I also suspect much of the allure of “the smith” comes from conjuring up some romantic vision of a guy laminating by hand, quenching by eye, working by himself, etc. etc. Even if this image isn’t marketed, I think it’s sometimes an assumption.
Do people actually imagine a “smith” supervising a handful of un-named skilled workers that do the forging? My understanding is that “smith” is also understood to be an occupational title that denotes skill enough to teach/supervise others.
In general I agree, except in this context the smith does heat treating and in case of in house san mai also the forge welding. Since both of these are very important the smith matters.
Depends on the skill I guess, for stuff like Tanaka or Nakagawa that occupies over half of the Sakai export there’s no way they work alone, but some smith do work with maybe couple family members helping.
I can't believe there are so many "smiths" who don't grind and sharpen. 
"Here's your horseshoe blanks mister. You'll have to walk across town there to ole Clem's shop to have them finished."
"Here's your horseshoe blanks mister. You'll have to walk across town there to ole Clem's shop to have them finished."
Dan-
Senior Member
Unless it’s wrought then no one does
I don’t get why skill is important in heat treating. Presumably nowadays there are recommendations for time and temp, and proper quenching, and you just put the stuff in the temp controlled modern oven for that long, and it works? Can someone educate me to the contrary?
In a nutshell, yeah. I don't know what proportion of the Japanese made low alloy blades are still being done by eye. You can get fairly consistent results if you're good at it, but developing the eyes for it takes some time. I'm not sure how they deal with stainless steels though. I suspect those need to be done in a temperature controlled oven. I think that making mizu honyaki might actually be easier if you're heat treating from a forge because you can preferentially direct the heat to the edge.
Perhaps part of the reasoning is that modularization increases efficiency? In a similar way that batches and product lines do.I can't believe there are so many "smiths" who don't grind and sharpen.
"Here's your horseshoe blanks mister. You'll have to walk across town there to ole Clem's shop to have them finished."
I’d guess the recommended range are kind of conservative to increase the success rate, maybe some makers use their own recipe to create their own desired characteristics in steel. I mean outside Japan you still got BOS, Shawn @Deadboxhero and some others renowned for their heat treatment. I’ve had too many crappy steel from factories that supposed to have state of the art heat treatment equipment from all around the world.
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I think most of the smaller, artisan shops in Japan don't use heat treating ovens, definitely takes skill to gauge the temperature of the steel to get it right, and when to quench probably. I was gonna say, I agree the "sharpener" is probably the most important in making japanese chefs, but heat treat is pretty big too. As long as they get the heat treat right (and possibly laminations) rest is to the sharpener.
The skill, I believe, is having some understanding of both the steel and what you're trying to do with it. There are choices to be made and to understand them.
Two examples I can thing of are @Deadboxhero heat treat of CPM-15V and how ShiHan heat treats his steels. I'm not smart enough to know all the details, but there is experience and skill there.
Meh. Among the "artisan/traditional" makers I think it is more likely the Japanese way of specializing.
I bought 4 knives for my wife…she doesn’t think she needs 4 knives. I think that’s got to be an unpopular opinion.
Dan-
Senior Member
Nah, she only needs a santoku and also all the other knives she claims she doesn’t need.
mpier
Senior Member
Not if she’s my wife, she needs a santoku and a man that has all the other knives, because that’s almost the only knife she ever uses and if she needs something different I’m cutting it, it’s her default approach.
Dan-
Senior Member
Yeah for sure, but it seems that if she can use a petty and a suji petty about the same size as her santoku and a paring knife, then that’s what happens. And if she needs something cut by anything bigger, then it’s time for the manly knives which she won’t touch.
Deadboxhero
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Which recommendations do you choose?
How do you know which recommendations are working?
How do you test each to find difference?
How and Could you explain to an organization the how and why behind your decision and provide evidence and proof with your own experiments not just what you google searched?
What is the desired result for performance and what is needed to achieve it?
Your question would be like somebody saying it doesn't seem special for a chef to have an Italian restaurant when anybody can look up how to make spaghetti at home for under $5.
"Where is the skill in that? I could just look up the recommendations for Italian food and follow the times and temps on Rachel Ray . Com"
Well, the chef and restaurant might be really good at what they do, they might be working at a level of detail that others may not be doing and it might taste different.
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I'll trade the wet aged crap I get for your dry aged.
Chef Doom
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All meat is dry aged to a certain point. I have never had meat from a freshly killed cow. I would be interested in the experience.
By very strict standards it is impossible, once the cow is killed the aging starts, no matter it is 0.01 seconds or 20 years, so my suggestions would be bite a living cow.
Let’s pick nits together. 
But set up some cameras first and invite a few friends.
“Ikimookuri”
tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
Is the smith disclosed for CM?I can't believe there are so many "smiths" who don't grind and sharpen.
"Here's your horseshoe blanks mister. You'll have to walk across town there to ole Clem's shop to have them finished."
