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user 50439

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Hi there.
I've just joined because I'd love some help. On a regular basis, I'm needing to cook in a house that has loads of knives of every shape and size. But none of them seems to be terribly useful. And none is at all sharp. Simple chopping of herbs is impossible, and precision cutting or slicing a nightmare.
Any simple ideas that won't cost me a fortune....I don't want to spend a lot if I can avoid it.
All help will be gratefully received. Thanks. Suzle
 
The forum will gleefully make purchasing recommendations for months on end… but before you invite that discussion, can you say if this is a shared house environment where you don’t have full authority to, say, decide to get rid of this and that… and if you did get a good knife would it be at risk of rust or ruin from others? Would it be better to get a simple electric sharpener first and then see if that is good enough? Is there a budget? Your money? Someone else’s? If all the knives in the house get “too sharp” will others cut themselves and blame you? Let us know your constraints…
 
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Most knives will get decently sharp with some basic maintenance. I’d say your first option should be to pick 2-3 different types of knives from your existing collection that fit you feel like fit your cooking style and take them to be professionally sharpened.

Most likely they’ll run them through a machine at wherever you take them. If you’re lucky, they’ll take the time to make sure the basic profile and grind is decent, but at the very least you’ll probably get a serviceable edge for not a whole lot of money.

If they still don’t perform well after that, you might want to invest in a new knife or two. No matter what you end up with, you’ll want a way to maintain them at least a little by yourself at home. Depending on what you have, others here on the forum can advise on whether that be a sharpening stone, honing rod, or pull through sharpener.
 
Having a sharp knife basically depends on 2 things:
-Maintenance (sharpening)
-Storage

Anything beyond that (like quality of the knife, quality of the steel) only plays a minor role, and if the first 2 main factors aren't succesfully tackled no amount of expenditure in knives will fix the problem. A 500 dollar knife that doesn't get sharpened and/or gets abused and thrown in drawers will still end up being an expensive dull knife... just like a modest inexpensive knife can still function perfectly adequate when stored and maintained properly.
 
honestly, there’s a bargain knife brand you can find on Amazon or an Asian supermarket, called kiwi. It has, in my opinion, the best price/performance. Pick up any shape you like, and it comes screaming sharp. Maintenance on a honing rod. Should serve you well until you figure out other options
 
It sounds like the knives are not only dull, but are also mostly of nonstandard shapes that aren't useful for general cutting tasks.
 
First thing would be to get your knives sharp. Assuming you don't want to learn to do it yourself, take them to a professional. I found this shop in your town that looks good. They sharpen on a water cooled stone, which is what you are looking for.

https://warebroscutlery.com.au/
I'd take a few that you find comfortable to use and see how it goes. $1.50 an inch is very fair for pro sharpening, especially if they aren't using grinding belts.

It would be interesting to know what knives you are currently using to assess what can be expected performance wise. Some knives will never cut well, even sharp. If you aren't happy with the knives after sharpening and want to invest in something higher performance, come back and we can recommend some things to you.
 
Assuming your clients have standard mass market stainless knives (e.g. Wusthof, Henckles), in the near term consider just buying an electric pull-through sharpener and check with your clients that they’re ok with you using it on their knives.

Longer term consider learning how to sharpen freehand with a whetstone - this SG500 will work on general cheap stainless steel knives. There’s tons of videos to help get you started and plenty of advice available on the sharpening forum.

If you decide to learn sharpening by hand then at that point I’d recommend posting in the kitchen knife forum asking for a recommendation for your own quality knife. That way you can always have your higher-quality kit to use at clients.
 
Not really sure what OP's situation is based on the description, but if I have to cook in someone else's kitchen I usually bring at least 1 or a few of my own knives. I really can't be bothered putting lipstick on someone else's pig.
 
If the OP is looking for a decent inexpensive chef's knife that will handle almost all cutting dutiies, the 8 inch Victorinox Fibrox chef's knife is a forum favorite that can be had for under $50. Victorinox also makes an inexpensive paring knife that is sort of the industry standard for cheap paring knives. You can get a 4 pack of them for like $17 on Amazon. Or just buy one for $7.50 or so.

Anyway, those two knives will handle almost everything a normal person would want to do in the kitchen and won't break the bank. You may also want to add a bread knife like the Mercer 10" bread knife, which can be had for around $15.

Like others have pointed out, even the best knives get dull, so you'll eventually want to invest in some stones or find a sharpening service that you trust.
 
If you think a kiwi comes screaming sharp you just have low standards.
But as OP mentioned there's already enough knives; the problem is what state they're in.
yes it’s exaggerated, they come decent though. better than most mass produced knives. do they keep an edge? not really? but OP seems overwhelmed with knives, and sending out for sharpening and choosing which one is worth it can seem a daunting task. i would recommend a cheap knife first, maybe an electric sharpening machine second. people recommend whetstones honestly don’t understand who they’re talking to imo.
 
The forum will gleefully make purchasing recommendations for months on end… but before you invite that discussion, can you say if this is a shared house environment where you don’t have full authority to, say, decide to get rid of this and that… and if you did get a good knife would it be at risk of rust or ruin from others? Would it be better to get a simple electric sharpener first and then see if that is good enough? Is there a budget? Your money? Someone else’s? If all the knives in the house get “too sharp” will others cut themselves and blame you? Let us know your constraints…
Thanks so much for all these really helpful replies. With no authority to change anything, I just want to buy something functional to add in, that will stop me going crazy! Nothing really worth sharpening, so I've started looking online, and of course, I can see that there are some good and cheapish choices.
I've always enjoyed using my 20+ y.o. carbon steel knives, but is Stainless S just as good now? I can keep them sharp enough (though I'll be checking these forums to add to my skill).
Is Santoku a brand I should consider? Or is it even a brand?
 
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I've always enjoyed using my 20+ y.o. carbon steel knives, but is Stainless S just as good now?

From Knife Deburring (6th Ed.):

Myth – Carbon knives perform better than stainless Chromium is added not only for corrosion resistance - the chromium carbides are harder than iron carbides, and give the steel better edge retention. Where a chromium steel is alloyed with little molybdenum or vanadium of 0.15%, these two improve the edge retention further, but not through their own carbides like in wear-resistant steels, but through enhancing the chromium carbide hardness. So, the century-old debate of carbon vs stainless knives is of no question to us: true, that it is easier to put a very sharp edge on a high-carbon knife, but provided that they have the same HRC hardness, the stainless knife has a better edge retention. We vote for stainless.

You will see plenty of recommendations for knives in Ginsan, SG2, AEB-L etc stainless.

I’m with @Jovidah – first choice, bring your own good knives, in a roll, to the house, and take them with you when you leave. This is what many pro cooks do. The other options have been outlined above and in every case the important thing is to have a sharpening plan. Edge guards will help protect knives kept in a drawer but they aren’t enough. Without active steps to counter entropy, whatever new & sharp you buy will quickly become old & dull like the rest.
 
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Thanks so much for all these really helpful replies. With no authority to change anything, I just want to buy something functional to add in, that will stop me going crazy! Nothing really worth sharpening, so I've started looking online, and of course, I can see that there are some good and cheapish choices.
I've always enjoyed using my 20+ y.o. carbon steel knives, but is Stainless S just as good now? I can keep them sharp enough (though I'll be checking these forums to add to my skill).
Is Santoku a brand I should consider? Or is it even a brand?
Santoku is a shape of knife, not a brand.

What's your budget? If you fill out the survey, you'll get better more targeted recommendations

Full knive request form below:

LOCATION
What country are you in?


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Are you right or left handed?

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Shun

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)


If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
 
It really helps to have all these ideas to get started. Now I'm going to look at what's in the shops, and try sizes and weights before looking online. Thanks.
 
Carbon knives generally sharpen more easily than stainless. This is mainly a function of easier removal of the burr (rather than a significant difference in how long it takes to actually form an edge).

In higher end knives, fine grained stainless steels such as ginsan and SG2 (aka R2) are available. These steels will take a pretty fine edge and deburr a little more easily than most stainless. However, I get the impression that you are not looking to spend 300 plus for a knife like this.

Most middle priced Western stainless knives (anything from Victorinox to Mundial to Wustoff etc) are made from a steel variously called X50CrMoV15 or krupps stainless. It's a relitavely soft but tough steel which is coarse grained and forms a pretty tenacious burr. It's a decent choice for knives that won't be maintained well but you won't be winning any sharpening competitions with it. It does respond well to maintain the edge with a steele (it will still need sharpening when this stops working to realign the edge). Victorinox fibrox are amongst the cheapest of these and pretty good bang for your buck if you can look past the cheap plastic handles. Available from any decent retailer of kitchen supplies.

For cheaper knives (I'm thinking supermarket knives and knives branded for generic cookware companies), it's anyone's guess as to which steel is uused. Almost certainly inferior to X50CrMoV15.

It's hard to find which steel is used in Kiwi knives but I did once find a page stating they used "Japanese knife steel, SUS404". SUS404 is a very soft low carbon stainless that is sometimes used as cladding steel in Japanese knives. Far too soft or the cutting edge. If true, this would explain their edge retention. Apart from this, they decent knives.
 
Mainstream OZ[bargainer]wise...



Both knife and sharpener combo can be had ~hundred dollaridoos...

https://www.ozbargain.com.au/search/node/minosharp type:ozbdeal
Or just get the minosharp to touch up your client's knives... or get 6x Victorinox tomato knives and treat disposables... or pop by an asian grocery for a kiwi etc... you need to work it out which one suits you

It's hard to peg it without the questionaire, so feel free to ask us before you buy anything.
 
Honestly, you should really just get this https://www.kitchenwarehouse.com.au/Victorinox-Extra-Broad-Blade-Carving-Knife-20cm-Black
and one of these https://www.kitchenwarehouse.com.au/Victorinox-Classic-3pc-Paring-Knife-Set-Black.
Alternatively if you hang around here long enough you will end up with a $20,000 knife collection that is still growing as you keep looking for the perfect gyuto, petty, nakiri, santoku, sujihiki, yanagiba, usuba, sakimaru, deba, mukimono … you see where this is going? If you just want to prepare food and eat, get the Victorinox …
 
I was going so suggest Victorinox as well. A good, practical, straight-down-the-middle knife. They stand up well to all types of use and respond well to a honing steel.
There's also a rosewood handle version, if aesthetics matter:
https://www.kitchenwarehouse.com.au/Victorinox-Extra-Broad-Blade-Carving-Knife-20cm-Black

You also mention that you like older carbon steel:
I've always enjoyed using my 20+ y.o. carbon steel knives
The known brands have gotten much pricier on ebay over the past 20 years. But if you're willing to do a little digging (starting with an eBay search for "Carbon steel chef knife" or some such) then there are some great deals for very good knives that just aren't attractive to collectors. Big caveat: I'm talking about the US. Maybe (probably?) shipping to NZ ruins good deals?

Another VERY good option would be to post a WTB ("Wanted to Buy") on the BST ("Buy/Sell/Trade") page and see what sorts of things might be available based on your requirements. There's a good number of members in Australia--maybe a few have some nice vintage carbon that they're holding on to.
 
This forum is excellent...so many simple good ideas.
So, thus far, I've looked around and seen some gorgeous knives that I neither need nor can afford at this moment.
But, I discovered both a small and large ceramic knife at the back of the drawer......blunt as. Also found a pull-through sharpener that has a ceramic slot (only found that out after looking for the same model on Amazon and reading the blurb). The small knife is now quite sharp enough, and the bigger one is better but still not good. So back to Amazon to get a proper diamond sharpening stone. I so love Amazon.
That's me sorted for now.
Thanks to all the kind people who helped me to solve my problem, learn a lot of really good stuff, and not spend much money. I've had a quick look at the sharoeniung forum, and will go back soon to upskill myself there.
Thanks. Suzle
 

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