Using thickened water on whetstones.

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Transmaster

Transmaster

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I have been a fan of the Baumgartner [art] Restoration YouTube channel for years. I was watching the latest episode. Julian uses thickened water to hydrate without soaking to remove rabbit skin glue from the back of 300-plus-year-old canvases. I was looking at it and I thought this would work great on a splash-type whetstone. It so happens I have something like this in the form of a colloidal silver gel. It is thickened water with Argentum Metallicum silver. It is a natural antibacterial medication. I pulled out the Misono EU steel 3.1" paring knife and coated the Shapton 12,000 grit whetstone with this gel. The gel stayed in place on the whetstone with no mess or need to soak up water with a towel. The results were astounding. because the gel stayed in place there was no need to add more water while sharpening. The gel stays as a coating on the stone. I was wondering what use I would have for this 12K stone. With the thickened water I was quickly able to put an edge on this paring knife that with shaving cream I could have shaved the hair off of my forearms. Clean up afterward was easy I wiped the gel off the stone. This is how I am going to use these Shapton Whetstones from now on.

This thickener comes in powdered form, which you mix according to how thick you want it. There is the thickener that conservators use which is rather expensive. It is the food-grade thickener you would use. People with dysphagia, have difficulty in swallowing use this stuff. There are numerous brands available on Amazon this is stuff you can get at any pharmacy. Julian stores his water gels in his refrigerator. The Silver gel I have here sits in a jar in the medicine cabinet for a year or more without any breakdown.

I just ordered Nestles ThickenUp Clear it has no starch in it, it is Maltodextrin, Xanthan Gum, and Potassium Chloride.

https://a.co/d/bpSEt7I
 
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Seems counterintuitive. I always assumed friction is what abrades metal. Adding slime would reduce that, or maybe I'm missing something here.
 
tostadas said:
I wonder if there's a benefit vs something like honing oil which has been used for ages
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Less messy and easier to clean up I'd think.

I also agree that I think it's an interesting idea. In fact, in addition to using caustic soda to manage reactivity on some stones, I often use small amounts of glycerin with very hard stones to manage feedback. Glycerin certainly adjusts the texture of the water somewhat, even at lower concentrations. This deserves further experimentation
 
Mr.Wizard said:
@ethompson what effect does glycerin have?
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If you have a stone thats on the margins of being too glassy / grabby to use comfortably it can bring things back to being manageable in my experience. It definitely won't durn a piece of marble into a buttery surface, but it can help just enough to be worth doing.
 
I use food grade propylene glycol to "thicken water" when finishing razors. I have some stones that oil creates way too fine of an edge, like scary sharp. Water by itself isn't quite where I want it to be. Water mixed with propylene glycol is somewhere in between.

A slurry is an emulsion of abrasive particles, binder, swarf, and honing fluid. Changing any of these components changes how the stone cuts, grinds, polishes, etc.

That being said. Colloidal silver is dangerous and I won't be using that anytime soon.
 
stringer said:
Colloidal silver is dangerous and I won't be using that anytime soon.
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How so? To the best of my knowledge it is a safer and wider spectrum antibiotic than anything else common which is why it is the choice for most burn dressings.
 
stringer said:
I use food grade propylene glycol to "thicken water" when finishing razors. I have some stones that oil creates way too fine of an edge, like scary sharp. Water by itself isn't quite where I want it to be. Water mixed with propylene glycol is somewhere in between.
Click to expand...
I have found, somewhat to my surprise, that 20 passes on my really raspy noisy linen strop tames the edges from my "too sharp" finishers and makes them comfortable and super-keen. I didn't see that coming, but it seems to work.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
How so? To the best of my knowledge it is a safer and wider spectrum antibiotic than anything else common which is why it is the choice for most burn dressings.
Click to expand...

https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/health/is-colloidal-silver-safe



Rangen said:
I have found, somewhat to my surprise, that 20 passes on my really raspy noisy linen strop tames the edges from my "too sharp" finishers and makes them comfortable and super-keen. I didn't see that coming, but it seems to work.
Click to expand...

I have a Salvation Army ladies linen belt that works similarly
 
I stopped watching buamgartner after reading from conservationists how much irreparable damage his restoration techniques do. Apparently his methods and techniques are very last century, and geared towards making good videos rather than taking proper care of the pieces or being reversible.

The thickened water is… interesting. While I find it annoying having to reapply water to stones, I think I’d find having to clean up the thickened water after it dries to be more annoying. I always enjoyed using my crystalons with oil though, so it seems like it would be a similar feeling while still letting you use water on your stones. If my sharpened made up more than 15-30 seconds of touch ups every month, I think I’d try this thickened water.
 
Were any other benefits observed besides no need to re-apply the water? As somebody who sharpens using a sink bridge re-applying a bit of water was never on my list of the problems to be solved.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
How so? To the best of my knowledge it is a safer and wider spectrum antibiotic than anything else common which is why it is the choice for most burn dressings.
Click to expand...
If you must disinfect, ionic silver is consistent.
 
KKF has previously discussed cutting fluids, briefly – see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehbinder_effect


aporigine said:
There was a cool article in Scientific American maybe forty years ago about the effect of cutting fluids on machining steel. It involved the angle at which the tool engaged the workpiece. There was an angle at which the action of the tool transitioned from simply deforming the steel to cutting a chip.

Dry, that angle was rather acute. Various cutting fluids supported cutting at less acute angles, with light hydrocarbons faring well. The extreme was carbon tetrachloride, which cut chips at an obtuse (100°!) angle.

Carbon tet is waay too toxic for such use. Water worked to improve cutting. That’s why wet sandpaper is superior to dry when removing metal, and why I won’t use a dry stone unless I was outdoors and had to make do.
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Naftoor said:
Man, a whole mat sci degree and I never heard of this. Life is freaking awesome!
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