Venev Diamond Stones: what am I getting into?

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I have worked yesterday two knives with the Venev plate 80 + 150, using both sides. Here is my feedback : I think it is great tool that can replace most coarse grit whetstones. They are very hard stones, they don't dish, they abrase, they make precise and clean work.
The 80 side will work fast enough for shaping the bevel and you will get something close to Debado 180 fastness I would say, with deeper scratches though. But where the Debado will be not as precise, like along the shinogi, or at the heel where you're always not sure if you overgrind or if the work is clean ; the Venev will give a precise job, clear, because there will be no haziness and the scratches won't hide anything, and it is very hard so when it is not touching, it is clearly not touching.
The 150 side will be used to erase 80 scratches and further refine the bevel geometry. It will work faster than a Naniwa pro 400 but again, deeper scratches. But you get a clear view on the bevel and you don't need to flatten the stone because it is so hard.
I did not have to flatten both stones after the work on both knives, which took about 1 hour each. Really impressive.
I really like the hardness for the control it give and feedback is not bad.

Now some cons :
- I am not sure I would advise it to beginners. Being super hard, they are not working like softer or medium hard stone giving you the idea the stone grind, and being hard they won't help you about facets, they will make them and you will have to deal with blending. Being hard, if it is not touching in some area, it really won't touch, so you will have to grind until it touch, so it's really rigid in the way it works, it's good for me, but I guess a beginner will not like it.
- for the grit, 80 being a 80 grit, 150 being a 180 grit, they are not fast as some whetstones. You'll be more precise but not sure as fast as you would expect.
- I have invested on some diamond stones recently (I will make a review when I will have work about a month with them), I would say Venev 80 + 150 is one of the best diamond stone for shaping a bevel I have tried. First place will go to NSK Hakuto 200 right now, because being a little softer it is also faster, but for the little lower price you got 2 grit with venev, lot of surface and being super hard they are useful because they will be always a reference and I guess i would buy maybe the other ones for ura work for exemple.
- last cons : deep scratches. Be ready to put heavy scratches on you bevel. They are not impossible to erase, but again, I am not sure it would be a beginner stones as I can imagine someone can be surprised not in a good way to not be able to erase the scratches of that stone. 150 will erase 80. But what will erase 150 ? I guess the 240 from venev. A naniwa pro 400 will be able to erase them, but it won't be that fast to do. And scratches are more deep in iron than steel. You will clean steel alright, but some scratches on the iron are severe and trying to erase them you will create new low spots if you are not aware. That make me think that scratch pattern is maybe not the most even, but I will check that.

That's it for now
 
Before anyone buy a Venev : let me work a little more with it.
As I notice, not sure the scratches are that even and they can be a pain to erase. It's the main constraint I can see. But even if it works fast, if it leaves some deep scratches which are not in the same level, it won't be a useful tool.
Keep you in touch
 
I haven't gotten my 80/150 yet. So i can't comment on that one specifically yet.

But just my experience with diamonds on san mai. A little care does need to be taken on the cladding, because it can bite in deep on such a relatively soft material.

Edit: though. I do want to add. With these in particular. Less pressure is more in my experience. I have a theory on why i see this happen, but I'm not positive.

But when i press harder because i want it to cut faster like i might on a normal stone. That just dulls the diamonds (i think), and causes the stone to act a bit more like its glazed. Also it depends on the material, as well as which venev im using.
 
jedy617 said:
I use my Venev double sides 400 and 800 just for sharpening PM steels, not for any finishing work. Interesting to see this
Click to expand...
I never actually finish with my diamond stuff. But its so far my experience has been good using them in different progressions polishing. Since theyre so hard, and the diamond cuts anything no problem theyre really good for cleaning up the convexes on primary bevels.
 
I've used diamonds for sharpening only, but I've definitely observed under the microscope that anything but light pressure is not a good thing, because you get some really deep rogue scratches that way.
 
milangravier said:
Before anyone buy a Venev : let me work a little more with it.
As I notice, not sure the scratches are that even and they can be a pain to erase. It's the main constraint I can see. But even if it works fast, if it leaves some deep scratches which are not in the same level, it won't be a useful tool.
Keep you in touch
Click to expand...
valuable feedback Milan, specially since the 80/150 is not so common around here as the 400/800 or 240/400

my main concern (as an average sharpener / polisher) is that my effort to erase deep scratches might lead to unintentional low spots / over grinds, like you said. that’s the main reason I don’t (for now) go coarser than SG220. I erase it’s scratches with SG500 which isn’t overly aggressive. something a bit faster than SG220 but with scratches that aren’t deeper would be a sweet spot IMO.

going off topic a bit, have you tried the Nanohone diamond stones @milangravier ? they make them in really coarse grits also
 
Choppin said:
valuable feedback Milan, specially since the 80/150 is not so common around here as the 400/800 or 240/400

my main concern (as an average sharpener / polisher) is that my effort to erase deep scratches might lead to unintentional low spots / over grinds, like you said. that’s the main reason I don’t (for now) go coarser than SG220. I erase it’s scratches with SG500 which isn’t overly aggressive. something a bit faster than SG220 but with scratches that aren’t deeper would be a sweet spot IMO.

going off topic a bit, have you tried the Nanohone diamond stones @milangravier ? they make them in really coarse grits also
Click to expand...
I have indeed tried them. I will make a sort of review of coarse stones for stone polishing in few weeks so give my feedback.
The nano hone resin patterned diamond stones are not efficient for me. I have to test more to give a proper feedback on that, but my first thought is that they are polishing stone not grinding stones, even at 200 micron or 100 micron. 200 micron should be 80 grit, so about the same as the coarsest Venev. And I can assure you they will never grind a 10/100 of what the Venev will. The 200 micron feel and grind like a 320 grit not lower.
I have contacted Hap Stanley, owner of Nano Hone. He said that he uses very precisely 200 micron diamonds (I trust him on that), but he uses rounded shape diamond (I guess venev is using pointy shape) and the resin as bonding work for making scratches as shallow as possible.
So it's very true, those stones give very very shallow scratches and will be easy to erase, even the 200 micron. But choosing that path, those very coarse grit stones are not grindind, meaning having engagement in the steel or the iron. Shaping the blade.
For me they look good for blending though
 
blokey said:
Anyone tried the NSK stones? Tosho has them, they are expensive but 3 times the thickness of usual 1mm.
Click to expand...
I haven’t, but Peter Nowlan posted some thoughts recently on his Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/peternowlan/
I’m considering a 400, seems like a versatile stone for a variety of steels. and apparently it polishes really well!
 
i
milangravier said:
I have indeed tried them. I will make a sort of review of coarse stones for stone polishing in few weeks so give my feedback.
The nano hone resin patterned diamond stones are not efficient for me. I have to test more to give a proper feedback on that, but my first thought is that they are polishing stone not grinding stones, even at 200 micron or 100 micron. 200 micron should be 80 grit, so about the same as the coarsest Venev. And I can assure you they will never grind a 10/100 of what the Venev will. The 200 micron feel and grind like a 320 grit not lower.
I have contacted Hap Stanley, owner of Nano Hone. He said that he uses very precisely 200 micron diamonds (I trust him on that), but he uses rounded shape diamond (I guess venev is using pointy shape) and the resin as bonding work for making scratches as shallow as possible.
So it's very true, those stones give very very shallow scratches and will be easy to erase, even the 200 micron. But choosing that path, those very coarse grit stones are not grindind, meaning having engagement in the steel or the iron. Shaping the blade.
For me they look good for blending though
Click to expand...
interesting! maybe the Nanohobe could be useful to remove coarser scratches from thinning and prepare for the next stones.
 
Choppin said:
i

interesting! maybe the Nanohobe could be useful to remove coarser scratches from thinning and prepare for the next stones.
Click to expand...
I found the 200 really excellent for thinning. I imagine if I were a professional like Milan, I would want the maximum possible speed. But for me, it was just the right compromise between making progress and not going further than I expected. And yes, the scratches were amazingly shallow for the speed.
 
milangravier said:
- I have invested on some diamond stones recently (I will make a review when I will have work about a month with them), I would say Venev 80 + 150 is one of the best diamond stone for shaping a bevel I have tried. First place will go to NSK Hakuto 200 right now, because being a little softer it is also faster, but for the little lower price you got 2 grit with venev, lot of surface and being super hard they are useful because they will be always a reference and I guess i would buy maybe the other ones for ura work for exemple.
Click to expand...
Milan, which Hakuto 200 did you get- 1 or 1S? I am very interested in getting a new diamond stone for thinning and bevel work, esp. for stainless clad and cheap stainless knives. I'm currently using SG stones 120, 220, 320 for this purpose. I want something faster that I don't have to flatten as often, but not something that leaves these super deep scratches.
Also, do the NSK feel more like a vitrified stone, or a resin bond?
Thanks for taking the time for these write ups... very informative
 
This may be an obvious comment for those looking at these, but only the 400+ are the "OCB" resin compound. Perhaps they will release lower grits with the new resin and improve scratch patterns / softness for us.
 
Hey,
Here is a little review (about stone polishing wide bevel on san mai) :
About venev stone : I think more and more that they are great, at least the 80 + 150, it is the one I have. Yesterday I worked with the 150, finally it is plenty fast enough, but when you see some part that would close to need a powertool work, I can flip and gring with the 80 grit which will work amazingly fast. The thing that astonish me : they are so hard but still abrasive, and they don't dish. First time I experience that. I have worked maybe 3 or 4 knives on it and it did not moved (I check with a rectified ruller). So I think I can advise a Venev 80 + 150 to someone who want a stone that grind super fast and is very hard.
Pro : hard + abrasive + stay flat + 2 grits + scratches if you manage to make them shallow with low pressure, can be erased by Naniwa pro 400
Cons : not really for total beginners + scratches can be deep, very deep + you need low pressure indeed + sometimes they are even too large + they are great, should be available in any sharpening tool shop.

About resin pattern diamond from Nano hone : Used them yesterday again, would really not advise them for shaping a bevel in order to go to some fine jnats one day. They are too soft, not precise enough. They will make your bevel look beautiful, but hiding some low spots and overgrind, you won't see that your surface is not great. They can be used after a Venev to blend and smooth the scratches though
Pro : soft + very shallow scratches + blend the bevel + finish look very good
Cons : not precise enough + don't grind material fast enough (to my taste) + can't do edge leading strokes on it, you will get stuck in the soft resin

NSK diamond stones Hakuto (1), I got 3 (I think they are vitrified but not 100% sure) : 200 is hard but not as hard as Venev, it will work maybe a hair slower but it is still a very fast stone, scratches will be shallower, but it will dish a little if you need perfect flatness you will flatten about one or two times per knife. It is precise and scratches are quite shallow and even, more even than venev.
400s is mid hard, very very fast, it will dish too and will need maybe 2 or 3 times flattening if you want perfect flatness, scratches are less shallow not like venev but they are quite deep. Low pressure is the key I guess.
800 is very hard, as hard as Venev maybe, work fast, very precise, will need maybe one flattening per knife, or every two knives.
Pro : more abrasive + more consistent scratches than Venev + shallow scratches mostly + fast + after 800 I can jump to Naniwa pro 3k (better to use a 1k or 2k but still it works)
Cons : expensive + a tad too soft for the 400s (for me) + scratches from 400s can be deep but it is a very fast stone + 200 and 800 are great stones + They should be available in any sharpening tools shop.

Disclaimer : First 2 weeks I get them, I was closed to regret my choice of spending that much money. I bought all those diamond stones after having so much trouble grinding some knives, with the Debado 180 and the Imanishi 200, then a Practical sharpening 400 diamond plate (hardly available or joinable). I decided I had to find better tools so I bought all those to find the stones that could work for me. But actually when I get them, I could see they were fast but mostly I was very struggling with deep scratches and going from one stone to another was not smooth.
So some advises : they are not really for beginners again (sorry) : you need to flatten them and condition them before use. Especially the Venev was super weird at first and once I put it on 80 grit sic powder and shave maybe a 1/10 of mm, if worked much much better. The NSK 400s was not flat at all when it arrived. The NSK800 was super hard and glassy at first and then after flattening and surfacing, was much better.
You need some coarde sic powder to flatten them, then a 200 grit stone like Debado or a pink brick will be used to surface it and open it again.
You need to use low pressure on them really, they won't give you good result with high pressure, deep scratches and will burnish quickly.
A good set for hobbist that want to grind, thin, shape bevels on stones in order to go to jnats ? With high budget : NSK stones, they are the best quality and will be the easiest to handle.
With lower budget : Venev stones, harder to use but very abrasive. I need to test one day the 240+400 but hey I need to make and sell some knives now
 
I have the Columbia Gorge matix diamond stones. He's recommended way to dress matrix stones is with SiC powder on a hard, flat surface like a floor tile or glass. I assume the same would be true for the Venev stones. It seems like BFK would clean them but I would not expect it to remove matrix material to expose fresh diamond surfaces.
 
After using some Venev stones @work, i have t admid they are way to soft for my taste (The OSB bondet ones). The main problem is, they raise a burr in no time and with this you may cut the stone one the other hand. So not really usefull for deburring at least for me. I think i like the traditional naniwa/shapton/natural route more.

For thining the non OSB bondet ones are superb.

SirCutALot
 
milangravier said:
I have indeed tried them. I will make a sort of review of coarse stones for stone polishing in few weeks so give my feedback.
The nano hone resin patterned diamond stones are not efficient for me. I have to test more to give a proper feedback on that, but my first thought is that they are polishing stone not grinding stones, even at 200 micron or 100 micron. 200 micron should be 80 grit, so about the same as the coarsest Venev. And I can assure you they will never grind a 10/100 of what the Venev will. The 200 micron feel and grind like a 320 grit not lower.
I have contacted Hap Stanley, owner of Nano Hone. He said that he uses very precisely 200 micron diamonds (I trust him on that), but he uses rounded shape diamond (I guess venev is using pointy shape) and the resin as bonding work for making scratches as shallow as possible.
So it's very true, those stones give very very shallow scratches and will be easy to erase, even the 200 micron. But choosing that path, those very coarse grit stones are not grindind, meaning having engagement in the steel or the iron. Shaping the blade.
For me they look good for blending though
Click to expand...
I wonder if that was actually a good, or bad choice to go with a more rounded diamond?

At the very least for the coarse it seems it would have made sense to go with sharper abrasive. Especially on a slow wearing stone like a bonded diamond stone.

Idk, maybe he paid for some electron microscope imaging, and found out some things that aren't available to the general public? And found even in bonded diamond stones rounded abrasive does less subsurface damage? Though, i wouldnt think that would be the case. Or if it was, that it would matter much in something like an 80 grit stone, because you would expect subsurface damage no matter what that would be removed with higher grits.
 
milangravier said:
Hey,
Here is a little review (about stone polishing wide bevel on san mai) :
About venev stone : I think more and more that they are great, at least the 80 + 150, it is the one I have. Yesterday I worked with the 150, finally it is plenty fast enough, but when you see some part that would close to need a powertool work, I can flip and gring with the 80 grit which will work amazingly fast. The thing that astonish me : they are so hard but still abrasive, and they don't dish. First time I experience that. I have worked maybe 3 or 4 knives on it and it did not moved (I check with a rectified ruller). So I think I can advise a Venev 80 + 150 to someone who want a stone that grind super fast and is very hard.
Pro : hard + abrasive + stay flat + 2 grits + scratches if you manage to make them shallow with low pressure, can be erased by Naniwa pro 400
Cons : not really for total beginners + scratches can be deep, very deep + you need low pressure indeed + sometimes they are even too large + they are great, should be available in any sharpening tool shop.

About resin pattern diamond from Nano hone : Used them yesterday again, would really not advise them for shaping a bevel in order to go to some fine jnats one day. They are too soft, not precise enough. They will make your bevel look beautiful, but hiding some low spots and overgrind, you won't see that your surface is not great. They can be used after a Venev to blend and smooth the scratches though
Pro : soft + very shallow scratches + blend the bevel + finish look very good
Cons : not precise enough + don't grind material fast enough (to my taste) + can't do edge leading strokes on it, you will get stuck in the soft resin

NSK diamond stones Hakuto (1), I got 3 (I think they are vitrified but not 100% sure) : 200 is hard but not as hard as Venev, it will work maybe a hair slower but it is still a very fast stone, scratches will be shallower, but it will dish a little if you need perfect flatness you will flatten about one or two times per knife. It is precise and scratches are quite shallow and even, more even than venev.
400s is mid hard, very very fast, it will dish too and will need maybe 2 or 3 times flattening if you want perfect flatness, scratches are less shallow not like venev but they are quite deep. Low pressure is the key I guess.
800 is very hard, as hard as Venev maybe, work fast, very precise, will need maybe one flattening per knife, or every two knives.
Pro : more abrasive + more consistent scratches than Venev + shallow scratches mostly + fast + after 800 I can jump to Naniwa pro 3k (better to use a 1k or 2k but still it works)
Cons : expensive + a tad too soft for the 400s (for me) + scratches from 400s can be deep but it is a very fast stone + 200 and 800 are great stones + They should be available in any sharpening tools shop.

Disclaimer : First 2 weeks I get them, I was closed to regret my choice of spending that much money. I bought all those diamond stones after having so much trouble grinding some knives, with the Debado 180 and the Imanishi 200, then a Practical sharpening 400 diamond plate (hardly available or joinable). I decided I had to find better tools so I bought all those to find the stones that could work for me. But actually when I get them, I could see they were fast but mostly I was very struggling with deep scratches and going from one stone to another was not smooth.
So some advises : they are not really for beginners again (sorry) : you need to flatten them and condition them before use. Especially the Venev was super weird at first and once I put it on 80 grit sic powder and shave maybe a 1/10 of mm, if worked much much better. The NSK 400s was not flat at all when it arrived. The NSK800 was super hard and glassy at first and then after flattening and surfacing, was much better.
You need some coarde sic powder to flatten them, then a 200 grit stone like Debado or a pink brick will be used to surface it and open it again.
You need to use low pressure on them really, they won't give you good result with high pressure, deep scratches and will burnish quickly.
A good set for hobbist that want to grind, thin, shape bevels on stones in order to go to jnats ? With high budget : NSK stones, they are the best quality and will be the easiest to handle.
With lower budget : Venev stones, harder to use but very abrasive. I need to test one day the 240+400 but hey I need to make and sell some knives now
Click to expand...
Nice write up.

Still waiting on my 80/150 in the mail. But im planning to use it for a similar reason.

I've bought quite a few low grit stones lately for doing final shaping on bevels, a few sic stones, and other things. And especially with some of the steels im using, and also monosteel blades, it just wasn't good enough for what i need.

Im hoping this lower grit venev is what I'm needing (probably is, I just didn't want to drop more money at the time lol). But i knew i should have just gotten diamonds from the start.
 
Yeah, we all spend too much money on stones, and too often on stones that are not useful. That's why I wanted to review, and with more experience I will maybe write a bit more about it.
Most coarse whetstones will be quite weak for thinning and shaping a bevel. Or too soft and you can't see what you doo. Or too hard and it's barely grinding anything.
Diamond stones are really the solution for people like us. And I think I can now advise someone to buy a Venev instead of trying, like I did all the coarse stones on the market (I tried maybe 8 differents, that's a lot of money too...).
As the 80 grit Venev is quite agressive, I wonder if a 100 + 240 would not be better actually to advise to most people...
 
milangravier said:
Yeah, we all spend too much money on stones, and too often on stones that are not useful. That's why I wanted to review, and with more experience I will maybe write a bit more about it.
Most coarse whetstones will be quite weak for thinning and shaping a bevel. Or too soft and you can't see what you doo. Or too hard and it's barely grinding anything.
Diamond stones are really the solution for people like us. And I think I can now advise someone to buy a Venev instead of trying, like I did all the coarse stones on the market (I tried maybe 8 differents, that's a lot of money too...).
As the 80 grit Venev is quite agressive, I wonder if a 100 + 240 would not be better actually to advise to most people...
Click to expand...
The 100 + 240 one is one I've been thinking of getting next myself. If you happen to get it soon, would be interested in your thoughts.
 
milangravier said:
Hey,
Here is a little review (about stone polishing wide bevel on san mai) :
About venev stone : I think more and more that they are great, at least the 80 + 150, it is the one I have. Yesterday I worked with the 150, finally it is plenty fast enough, but when you see some part that would close to need a powertool work, I can flip and gring with the 80 grit which will work amazingly fast. The thing that astonish me : they are so hard but still abrasive, and they don't dish. First time I experience that. I have worked maybe 3 or 4 knives on it and it did not moved (I check with a rectified ruller). So I think I can advise a Venev 80 + 150 to someone who want a stone that grind super fast and is very hard.
Pro : hard + abrasive + stay flat + 2 grits + scratches if you manage to make them shallow with low pressure, can be erased by Naniwa pro 400
Cons : not really for total beginners + scratches can be deep, very deep + you need low pressure indeed + sometimes they are even too large + they are great, should be available in any sharpening tool shop.

About resin pattern diamond from Nano hone : Used them yesterday again, would really not advise them for shaping a bevel in order to go to some fine jnats one day. They are too soft, not precise enough. They will make your bevel look beautiful, but hiding some low spots and overgrind, you won't see that your surface is not great. They can be used after a Venev to blend and smooth the scratches though
Pro : soft + very shallow scratches + blend the bevel + finish look very good
Cons : not precise enough + don't grind material fast enough (to my taste) + can't do edge leading strokes on it, you will get stuck in the soft resin

NSK diamond stones Hakuto (1), I got 3 (I think they are vitrified but not 100% sure) : 200 is hard but not as hard as Venev, it will work maybe a hair slower but it is still a very fast stone, scratches will be shallower, but it will dish a little if you need perfect flatness you will flatten about one or two times per knife. It is precise and scratches are quite shallow and even, more even than venev.
400s is mid hard, very very fast, it will dish too and will need maybe 2 or 3 times flattening if you want perfect flatness, scratches are less shallow not like venev but they are quite deep. Low pressure is the key I guess.
800 is very hard, as hard as Venev maybe, work fast, very precise, will need maybe one flattening per knife, or every two knives.
Pro : more abrasive + more consistent scratches than Venev + shallow scratches mostly + fast + after 800 I can jump to Naniwa pro 3k (better to use a 1k or 2k but still it works)
Cons : expensive + a tad too soft for the 400s (for me) + scratches from 400s can be deep but it is a very fast stone + 200 and 800 are great stones + They should be available in any sharpening tools shop.

Disclaimer : First 2 weeks I get them, I was closed to regret my choice of spending that much money. I bought all those diamond stones after having so much trouble grinding some knives, with the Debado 180 and the Imanishi 200, then a Practical sharpening 400 diamond plate (hardly available or joinable). I decided I had to find better tools so I bought all those to find the stones that could work for me. But actually when I get them, I could see they were fast but mostly I was very struggling with deep scratches and going from one stone to another was not smooth.
So some advises : they are not really for beginners again (sorry) : you need to flatten them and condition them before use. Especially the Venev was super weird at first and once I put it on 80 grit sic powder and shave maybe a 1/10 of mm, if worked much much better. The NSK 400s was not flat at all when it arrived. The NSK800 was super hard and glassy at first and then after flattening and surfacing, was much better.
You need some coarde sic powder to flatten them, then a 200 grit stone like Debado or a pink brick will be used to surface it and open it again.
You need to use low pressure on them really, they won't give you good result with high pressure, deep scratches and will burnish quickly.
A good set for hobbist that want to grind, thin, shape bevels on stones in order to go to jnats ? With high budget : NSK stones, they are the best quality and will be the easiest to handle.
With lower budget : Venev stones, harder to use but very abrasive. I need to test one day the 240+400 but hey I need to make and sell some knives now
Click to expand...
NSK makes resinoid stones only... thats what their workshop is set up for. I've been using them for years here and have tried the vast majority of stones he produces.
 
they have their place for sure, and are quite enjoyable. But i also feel like many people want them because of the rarity instead of a need. Resinoid diamond stones also have some very solid strengths, but often get overlooked.

And, yes, getting good results in vitrified stones is really hard.
 
Having tried neither, it is hard to know what to expect. The way people describe vits. is as if it feels like a hard ceramic stone that is extremely efficient and does not dish. The way people describe most resinoids is 31 flavors of weird. Cost / value is another story. No question vits are $. I have some Venevs in the mail from Hapstone in both the OCB and legacy compounds so am willing to do the necessary research :). Playing with steel on stone has become a Saturday afternoon/evening moment of zen for me so down the rabbit hole I go!
 
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JBroida said:
they have their place for sure, and are quite enjoyable. But i also feel like many people want them because of the rarity instead of a need. Resinoid diamond stones also have some very solid strengths, but often get overlooked.

And, yes, getting good results in vitrified stones is really hard.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're right that the the whole 'i want the unicorn- gotta have the top of the line' thing plays into it with vitrified. I think that another factor is that when someone with a lot of clout- like deadboxhero, Ivan at Tosho, or yourself- says that a stone is badazz, people listen, and want to get that stone (and BBB was a good hype man for his stones). Also the vits have a reputation for being insanely fast in the low grits while not dishing, and feeling more like a trad waterstone than the resins- sounds like a dream. i haven't yet found a stone that I'm excited about for doing heavy bevel work like repairing chipped scandi grinds and thinning stainless clad wide bevels- nothing traditional that I've used is durable & consistent while being fast enough. Now, I haven't tried low grit diamond stones yet that aren't just electrobonded plates, but the mid & high grit resins i've tried didn't impress me as far as speed goes (i also don't love the way they felt), so I've been hesitant to drop the cash for the lower grit resins (especially when the venev phoenix have a .3mm tolerance 😲).
I'd love to get my hands on the 2mm NSK hakuto #200, and even more so after milan's review, but it's not available anywhere in the states that I'm aware of (nsk won't ship internationally) 😞
 
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JBroida said:
NSK makes resinoid stones only... thats what their workshop is set up for. I've been using them for years here and have tried the vast majority of stones he produces.
Click to expand...
Thank Jon, actually thought it was vitrified, don't know why. But indeed the gummy feel is much more resin in its flavor.

The Practical sharpening I got is vitrified (400 grit), indeed, feel more like a ceramic. But is it perfect ? not really, mine is very hard and you need to refresh the surface or put some loose grit on it to make it cuts really.
 
I have been working, a lot, on the NSK yesterday.
Two more observations : they are quite soft, not soft like a cerax 400 of course !, but soft like a hard whetstone like a shapton glass. So it's not soft but they will dish and you cant work with them like 30 minutes without flattening them. The 400 being the softest (but it a S so, normal). I guess all is compromise but I wish they would be a tad harder to be honest. Maybe a matter of preference but the work is so much more precise on harder stones. So like all stones, work as much all the surface of it as possible.

Second, even I had taste the diamond stones before with Practical sharpening and a Naniwa diamond 400, I was using still a lot a 200 grit whetstone and Naniwa pro 400 & 600. Diamonds stones really burnish while the normal whetstones are giving a kasumi (contrast between iron and steel, and within the iron, they will make dark the flatter part and burnish the high spots). And actually that effect of the whetstones is sometimes interesting for checking the surface. Yesterday, I was working and made progression 200, 400, 800 nsk, I knew one spot on my blade was a little critical but when working with the 800 the blade was looking good, scratch pattern even, so critical but was looking even enough. But going to a 1000 naniwa pro, I could see that there was a big high spot and the stone was hitting strongely there, so really not even enough.
So just be careful about that. They cut and make contact so well on the blade that they "hide" high spot a little. Consider to use a whetstone like Naniwa 1k or 2k in your progression, to check how the bevel will react with a softer stone that will make contrast.
 
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