Vertoku Knives - Buyer Beware

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So they are just not expensive enough, apparently, it hardly matters how well they seem to work. I have used considerably more expensive knives that didn't take such a nice edge as these.
 
No. I said they are too expensive for what they are. Paying any amount of money for a set of lasered-on “Damascus“ knives is a mistake.
 
And if you do decide to make the decision to buy Alibaba/Aliexpress stuff, save yourself the money and go straight to the source. Vertoku doesn't sell the 6-piece $100 set anymore, but they do offer a 5-piece one for $100. And here are the same exact knives on Aliwhatever for $42. The 8-piece set is $160 from Vertoku and $61 on Aliwhatever.

So please... continue talking about how much markup there is on Japanese knives.
 
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Everybody take a breath.

OP - I hope you continue to enjoy your knives. This is a site that's focused on wares for knife geeks. There are properties of those knives (and most of their brethren) that have been found wanting by the resident geeks, myself included. But at the end of the day, they're your knives and if you like them, good on you.

Hope you'll stick around.
 
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Apologies if I was a bit too harsh; I'm not trying to abuse or insult GWB. I'm mostly averse to Vertoku and their business practices, as well as those of countless other vendors who rebrand cheap Chinese knives and sell them at extreme markups. I'm also against OEMs who cut corners but then add extra manufacturing steps to make it look like they didn't (like not using layered steel but lasering on a pattern to make it look like there are layers). This is the sign that they're not serious about creating a quality knife and that they want to appeal to buyers who value style over substance. In the end, these are somewhat sketchy knives of unknown provenance, unknown steel, and unknown heat treatment. It sounds like the company selling them misrepresented their product or shipped the wrong thing and didn't take care of the error. I'm glad that GWB is happy with the set for the price he paid, but I'd steer people toward a basic "set" of a Victorinox chef and paring knives along with a Tojiro bread knife.
 
The Damascus texture is just rolled or stamped on i doubt that they use lasers and it serves the same purpose as the circular scallops some knives have. I have bought much more expensive german and french knives that were kind of terrible. I've never tried Victorinox, they would be the same company that makes the Swiss Army knives, right?

The various german and french knives I've had just didn't get sharp or stay sharp, and I know how to do that properly. Anytime I'm a guest at a friend's house that cooks a lot he's quite happy to have me sharpen his knives. He has about 20 knives and about four of them sharpen quite nicely. Others that cost 4x as much as mine, not so much. One of the most expensive ones he has, does get really sharp and seems a bit less delicate than my Chinese ones.

These get so sharp I don't even need a bread knife. Even fairly soft bread cuts easily. So what properties don't they have compared to a knife that you would "respect" and I really don't care that they aren't really damascus, I didn't believe that in the first place at this price. What I care about is balance, nice rounded handles, and a good edge and these have it. Perhaps the edge is too easily dulled on these and I could possibly agree with that.
 
Does Vertoku pay by the word?
My set didn't even come from them. The company I bought them from switched to even fancier looking and far more expensive Chinese knives with side rivets on the handles (not that it really matters) and Vertoku came up on a search when I wanted to buy similar knives for my sister. They never came up on Alibaba, but google seems to ignore listing things from Alibaba. I am here trying to figure out why a knife that takes such a good edge is considered bogus somehow. I do realize that some of their claims about the knives don't hold much water, the company I bought them from insisted that they were actually Japanese, at least Vertoku is honest that they come from China.

But you guys are right that you can find them for much less elsewhere and it's hugely surprising how much less. Like $10 a set. I should have searched on Alibaba.
 
For what? Marking up a product? Falsifying Damascus pattern, like Shun?
Say it ain’t so! I’m heartbroken, haha. I thinned my 8’ Shun classic gyuto a decent amount and all the damascus pattern remained. Must be a somewhat deep etch/engraving?
 
So I have found a seller on Alibaba, that has a larger set that what I bought (2 more knives, and the two extra ones look like they'd be useful) for $87 including shipping. The Chinese companies are completely honest about what they are, they are "laser pattern, Japanese-style knives"
 
So I have found a seller on Alibaba, that has a larger set that what I bought (2 more knives, and the two extra ones look like they'd be useful) for $87 including shipping. The Chinese companies are completely honest about what they are, they are "laser pattern, Japanese-style knives"

Happy you love your knives. If you give a set for Christmas to your friend who collects expensive Japanese knives, let him know he can sell his j-knives here on BST.
 
To the OP,

FYI, the knife you wanted is not real Damascus, it’s just printed pattern, although a beautiful feather Damascus pattern.

You can get it for $35 on AliExpress or about $50 on ebay.

With shipping in single order quantities, the price is more like $90 for a set of eight knives. It's still cheaper than a set of barely ok Kitchen Aide knives, and they are considerably sharper than that. If you can afford to order a few hundred at the time and wait for three months for them to ship by container, the price does go down by about half, but even the Vertoku price isn't unreasonable retail, it's just the lies that are a bit disconcerting. It doesn't matter to me if they are really Damascus steel, they work just fine, they didn't need to lie about them.
Happy you love your knives. If you give a set for Christmas to your friend who collects expensive Japanese knives, let him know he can sell his j-knives here on BST.
He just collects things. His entire house is piled high with various things he's bought over the years, he has narrow aisles all over the house, boxes in front of cabinets and the dishwasher, counters piled high with stuff, and half of the huge kitchen cabinets are full of stuff he never uses. And even though he had these beautiful knives they were dull as eff when I first moved in, but boy did they resharpen beautifully. Some of the items are valuable others are just junk like 30 year old calculators. He owns about 300 knives, and other than the Japanese ones, none of them are collector's items. He's just hoarding.

I do agree that his $300+ Japanese knives are better than my $90 set. But the $150 or so each French and German knives are considerably worse than these cheap Chinese knives. But I can't afford $300 for a knife, and these are awfully good, very sharp, nicely balanced knives with comfortable handles for the price.

I am in an apartment now with 1/4 of the cabinet space and I have more room for my cooking gear than he did in his huge kitchen.

Out of sheer curiosity I've ordered a set of eight knives directly from China for $89, which is about $30 less than I paid for my six-piece set. I'm sure I can find someone that will be very happy with them as a gift.
 
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He's just hoarding.

Definitely sounds like hoarding - I hope he’s able to get the help he needs. Hoarding always seemed like a horrible mental disease to me because it starts off so small and then one day your friends are looking at you like you’re crazy but you have no idea why.

Regardless of relative value, as long as you like your knives and they’re in budget that’s what counts at the end of the day. A carrot is a carrot and as long as it ends up in the pot we all get to eat.
 
Facebook and basically any social media purchase. Kickstarter has become especially sour lately.
Wait, I just bought a parer from Butch on Facebook a couple of months ago. And it certainly looked like him and the knife seems to be CPM154 (still). So maybe it's just "Caveat emptor" and know your source if you go that route.
 
So out of curiosity I ordered a set directly on Alibaba. The whole set of eight knives is $23 in China. It cost another $55 including tax to have them shipped to Seattle.

This is about one third as much as my first set from a vendor even more sketchy than Vertoku. It's a little cheaper than Vertoku's price.

They may not meet the minimum standard of knife afficionados but they still are wicked sharp, with nice rounded handles, and they don't look cheap. I'm going to suggest that they are perhaps not stainless but are heavily chrome plated carbon steel. This explains the absolutely fabulous sharpness, carbon steel has a much finer grain structure than stainless.

It wasn't good when my previous roommates washed them in the dishwasher or soaked them in the sink. The edge corrodes. But if you wash them by hand this doesn't happen.

But as a practical matter these are an absolute joy to use and cost less than a set of mediocre Kitchen Aide knives. They are certainly sharper than my former roommates German and French knives.
 
So out of curiosity I ordered a set directly on Alibaba. The whole set of eight knives is $23 in China. It cost another $55 including tax to have them shipped to Seattle.

This is about one third as much as my first set from a vendor even more sketchy than Vertoku. It's a little cheaper than Vertoku's price.

They may not meet the minimum standard of knife afficionados but they still are wicked sharp, with nice rounded handles, and they don't look cheap. I'm going to suggest that they are perhaps not stainless but are heavily chrome plated carbon steel. This explains the absolutely fabulous sharpness, carbon steel has a much finer grain structure than stainless.

It wasn't good when my previous roommates washed them in the dishwasher or soaked them in the sink. The edge corrodes. But if you wash them by hand this doesn't happen.

But as a practical matter these are an absolute joy to use and cost less than a set of mediocre Kitchen Aide knives. They are certainly sharper than my former roommates German and French knives.

At that price I don’t think it’s real Japanese VG10 or even AUS10 steel. It’s possibly the Chinese made “vg10” type of steel which has 0.8-1% carbon and it could take a better edge than those German x50 steels. For real imported AUS10 the lowest price they can sell a chef’s knife locally in China is about $20. No way they can sell an 8-knife set and shipping to US for only $78.

I’ve bought multiple $40 Chinese cleavers made with Chinese 9cr steel (0.9% carbon) for my families in China and they all love it. It comes a better edge than almost all Shibazi and all regular Zwilling knives (2 most popular brands in China) and it’s kinda thin behind the edge so all my family love it. I think the handmade Japanese knives are not overpriced compared with Chinese factory made knives because it’s an entirely different market (they could be overpriced compared to Western artisan knife makers though), but I agree German Zwilling /Wusthof knives COULD be overpriced for mass family market or commercial market. Even Victorinox, Chinese can probably make a similar preliminated knife using the exactly same Sandvik steel and handle and good HT and sells it for half the price like $15.

This knife series uses real prelaminated multilayer damascus AUS10 steel and the vendor sells it for about $50 for a 210 or $60 for a 240. It uses a nice wood handle and the knife is laser thin. Just want to show you the normal price for a nicely made Chinese knife using real Japanese steels. Still very cheap but not that cheap.
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At that price I don’t think it’s real Japanese VG10 or even AUS10 steel. It’s possibly the Chinese made “vg10” type of steel which has 0.8-1% carbon and it could take a better edge than those German x50 steels. For real imported AUS10 the lowest price they can sell a chef’s knife locally in China is about $20. No way they can sell an 8-knife set and shipping to US for only $78.

I’ve bought multiple $40 Chinese cleavers made with Chinese 9cr steel (0.9% carbon) for my families in China and they all love it. It comes a better edge than almost all Shibazi and all regular Zwilling knives (2 most popular brands in China) and it’s kinda thin behind the edge so all my family love it. I think the handmade Japanese knives are not overpriced compared with Chinese factory made knives because it’s an entirely different market (they could be overpriced compared to Western artisan knife makers though), but I agree German Zwilling /Wusthof knives COULD be overpriced for mass family market or commercial market. Even Victorinox, Chinese can probably make a similar preliminated knife using the exactly same Sandvik steel and handle and good HT and sells it for half the price like $15.

This knife series uses real prelaminated multilayer damascus AUS10 steel and the vendor sells it for about $50 for a 210 or $60 for a 240. It uses a nice wood handle and the knife is laser thin. Just want to show you the normal price for a nicely made Chinese knife using real Japanese steels. Still very cheap but not that cheap.
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Does that include shipping? That's not bad at all for aus10
 
I should have known better. Received an email from this company, supposedly based in Portland, OR. They offered a nice looking, Japanese style, 8" chefs knife. The ad crows about VG10 steel layered with 66 layers of Damascus steel. The knife has a nice looking resing/wood handle, reinforced at both ends.

https://vertoku.com/products/damasc...6R2Nk5qB5KBNZpAAD7uKIuAyB5ibqT14aAoKaEALw_wcB
What I received was nothing like what was advertised. I received a kirtsuke blade, 1/16 in thick steel plate, definitely not Damascus. There was a laser etch on the blade to fake it up. I have Damascus blades from Rajasthan, Shun, and Bob Cramer. The handle isn't anything like what was advertised, no bolster reinforcement, no endcap. It was some sort of molded plastic.

The ad was too good to be true. The site is loaded up with faked reviews. The only ones you can believe are the negatives. Not one verified purchase.

To return the item you are required to return it to Jinhua, China. Untracked and tracked USPS will run you 30% and 60% of the purchase price. I thought I could deal with this but it just isn't worth the aggravation. What a POS!

On this thread we've established that you can buy a set of 8 of these knives on Alibaba for $28 plus about $45 shipping.

I know this, because I did it. The set of knives I got this way were identical to the "Bokashi" or "Vertoku" branded knives except that they had no logo on them.

Sure, they are NOT actually Damascus steel, nor Japanese made in any way other than perhaps style.

So now another company is arrogantly reselling them for a very bespoke price.

https://hexclad.com/products/6pc-damascus-steel-knife-set
They want hundreds of dollars for the same set I got for $90 with tax.

On top of this there is a huge irony in that the knives may be mass produced and don't have any actual bespoke features but they ARE extremely nice knives in the way that they actually work in the kitchen.

They come with a wicked sharp edge, are nicely balanced, and are extremely easy to resharpen.

My guess is that they are actually heavily chrome plated carbon steel, which explains the low price AND the good edge. You have to make sure never to wash them in the dishwasher or to soak them in the sink.

But if you are willing to baby them this way the set on Alibaba is such a screaming deal. Paying $500 for the same knives with slightly different handles, not so much.

That said, there are European knives in the same price range that may have more bespoke features, but the one thing NONE of them get right is actually being really sharp good knives as compared to these woefully underpriced ones.
 
I don't recommend six knives at that price.
It's almost like there is some need to spend impressive amounts of money in order to feel like you've bought good knives.

So several companies have jumped in with these cheap and cheerful knives that are way better for $90 shipped as a eight piece set than anything less than hundreds of dollars.

Bokash, Vertoku, and now Hexclad.

Hexclad is marking them up even more.

https://hexclad.com/products/6pc-damascus-steel-knife-set
I just moved into a new shared living situation, and my Alibaba set of these knives are the ones people are using. The expensive Global, Henkels, are probably going to end up in a box instead.
 
Did you ever even touch an actual good and/or sharp knife? Because what I'm seeing is mostly someone who lacks a proper frame of reference.
Using knives like Global and Henckels as a benchmark to compare against is rather hollow considering most of us here don't have a high opinion of those knives either - and no, not because of the lower cost.

When I was new to knives I also thought my cheap made in China VG-10 stuff was the bees knees and came superduper sharp. A few years down the road I'd give the same knives a very different evaluation. What most lay people consider 'sharp' is just a rough low grit belt finish that feels sharper than it really is.
And that's apart from the bigger problem plagueing a lot of the Chinese stuff; lack of consistency. The most well-known example is Misen (where knives came out with heat treatments vastly different from advertised), but I've also seen this with other Chinese knives, where even within the same line from the same brand there was a significant variation in both grind and heat treatment.
 
Victorinox fibrox all the way.
Yep... if you had to make a lower cost recommendation personally I'd lean towards V'nox or one of the other brands mostly catering to professionals as well. Because they work...and you can buy a thousand of them and they'll all come out of the package the same way. Want to pay a bit more? Go for something like a Tojiro DP...
 
Ahhh my better half fell for one of these drop shippers a few years ago. She was particularly proud of it because of the handle. I’ve since moved it to her side of the knife drawer for her use.

No sharp corners on the knife, it’s as comfortable to hold as any Japanese knife. Height and profile don’t seem to be outliers. The handle is actually exceptionally well done, although not entirely to my taste with all the spacers. I’m not convinced it’s actually vg10, since I’ve noticed some patina forming after she’s used it a few times which is frankly bizarre. Not much distal taper to write home about. Balance is at the bolster. Geometry seemed fine but I don’t recall being wowed. It came sharp, edge retention is predictably awful. If I was buying gifts for Christmas I’d order 5-6 of them from Amazon sometime in July to give them time to arrive. Same price as a fibrox, but non-knife people will appreciate it more due to the pretty handle and damascusesque pattern.

First time taking a choil so hopefully it comes out ok.
 

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Did you ever even touch an actual good and/or sharp knife? Because what I'm seeing is mostly someone who lacks a proper frame of reference.
Using knives like Global and Henckels as a benchmark to compare against is rather hollow considering most of us here don't have a high opinion of those knives either - and no, not because of the lower cost.

When I was new to knives I also thought my cheap made in China VG-10 stuff was the bees knees and came superduper sharp. A few years down the road I'd give the same knives a very different evaluation. What most lay people consider 'sharp' is just a rough low grit belt finish that feels sharper than it really is.
And that's apart from the bigger problem plagueing a lot of the Chinese stuff; lack of consistency. The most well-known example is Misen (where knives came out with heat treatments vastly different from advertised), but I've also seen this with other Chinese knives, where even within the same line from the same brand there was a significant variation in both grind and heat treatment.
I would like to check out the Victorinox knives. My roommates vast packrat collection did include a lot of very expensive $100+ per blade knives, but only the ultra expensive Japanese ones he had were better than these cheap and cheerful ones.

As for consistency all three of these including the direct from Alibaba ones seem to be identical other than the logo / no logo
 
I would like to check out the Victorinox knives. My roommates vast packrat collection did include a lot of very expensive $100+ per blade knives, but only the ultra expensive Japanese ones he had were better than these cheap and cheerful ones.

As for consistency all three of these including the direct from Alibaba ones seem to be identical other than the logo / no logo

Very happy that you are happy with them. Gonna be a tough crowd to convince that these are a wise investment at any price. There are good cheap knives out there. Mercers and Dexter Sanisafe from a restaurant supply place would be way ahead of these in my book for performance. For pretty much the same supermarket clearance type of price. Or you can get a nice Chinese cleaver or a Kiwi for that price from an Asian grocery store. But if you step up just a little then there are decent Japanese knives (or Victorinox) available for 50-75$ a piece from reputable vendors that are light years ahead of these in terms of cutting performance, grind, ergonomics, and edge retention. Or eBay is full of vintage Japanese, European, American, and Chinese blades in good shape at 30-75$. You don't gain anything by buying one of these sets. Most home cooks don't use more than 2 or 3 knives. They pad out those sets with stuff you don't need and won't use. What they look like doesn't have anything to do with how they work. But I know those laser etched Chinese specials because I have coworkers who buy something like that instead of the Fibrox or Kanehide that I recommend and then a few months later they see the error their ways and the Chinese stuff disappears. You might have found the diamond in the rough. But it is statistically unlikely.

You are certainly free to sit here and continue to extol the praises of your Alibaba specials. That is your right. I hope that someday you check out some of the other threads on the forum. There's a vast repository of information here about why the community appreciates and tends to recommend the knives that we appreciate and recommend. But if you just want to flog dead horses then you are at the right place for that too. 👍
 
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