Very hard feeling stone recommendations?

[Chasingsharpness]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for a very hard stone anywhere between 400-4000ish grit level. I'm talking hard like Norton India fine. I have. Preference for these hard and precise feeling stones

I've tried a few of the more popular ones like shapton series, but wondering if Ive missed out on anything lesser known.


I was also wondering what is the hardest SiC stone in this kind of grit range? I came across one I havn't tried before (Sigma Power Select II) , but in unsure if this is quite soft.

 

[Rangen]

I don't know if any friable synthetic approaches the extreme hardness of an India stone, but the Naniwa Hibiki stones, and probably some other stones aimed at woodworkers sharpening chisels and not wanting to wear a groove in the stone, are quite dense.

Washitas are wonderful and very hard; not sure whether I would call them "precise" because I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

 

[Up_dog128]

If you wanna spend the big money, the resin bonded diamond stones from Naniwa and Venev are quite hard. And since your interested in SiC, maybe diamond would suit your needs.
The japanese SiC stones that I've tried, the Imanishi Bester series and the Sigma stones, range from being pretty soft to very soft.
You might consider just buying some really cheap gray SiC stones from an assortment of manufacturers, like harbor freight (though they rarely come in 3" widths that you might be accustomed to). Some of the ones that I've tried have been quite hard, and will happily glaze over for ya.
Can't comment on the Hibiki yet, as I seem to have somehow lost the 3k that I bought

 

[M1k3]

Sigma Select, not the II versions. Tools From Japan carried them, but they've closed shop..

Only other ones I can think of that haven't been mentioned, would be vitrified diamond.

 

[Up_dog128]

Sigma Select, not the II versions. Tools From Japan carried them, but they've closed shop..

The only Sigma Select (1) that I've tried is the 1k that I have, and it's a bit soft... and damn fast. I'm curious if stones in that line vary hardness from one grit to the next? I've noticed that seems to somewhat be the case with the bester line-up.

 

[mengwong]

friable synthetic

In the non-friable category, how about

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/302F/Benchstone-Fine/80

 

[blokey]

Shapton pro, probably the hardest common stone

 

[stringer]

What you are asking for sounds basically like a Soft Arkansas to me. Buy one from Dan's or Sharpening Supplies and you will get a high quality one for not a lot of money.

 

[stringer]

Otherwise I second some sort of bonded/vitrified diamond

 

[Legion74]

I can't think of any stone that's as hard as an India. To get close, maybe a hard vintage Washita?

 

[Chasingsharpness]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Some nice suggestions I hadn't thought of before to read Into.

I havn't gone too far down the natural route yet but I will start by looking into the Washita thread. Will look at finding a hard version. The Arkansas are also interesting and seem to come in many variants.

I will also read up on the Naniwa Hibiki, a less famous lineup I have not tried yet.

The spyderco benchstone looks nice too but I will see if they make a 3" version. And I will also read up a bit on the difference between the sigma I and II series.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

What you are asking for sounds basically like a Soft Arkansas to me. Buy one from Dan's or Sharpening Supplies and you will get a high quality one for not a lot of money.

Yep, sounds like an Arkansas to me.

 

[M1k3]

The only Sigma Select (1) that I've tried is the 1k that I have, and it's a bit soft... and damn fast. I'm curious if stones in that line vary hardness from one grit to the next? I've noticed that seems to somewhat be the case with the bester line-up.

One of these?

https://www.japan-tool.com/toishi/jinzou/Sigma_Power/Sigma_Power.html

 

[Up_dog128]

One of these?

https://www.japan-tool.com/toishi/jinzou/Sigma_Power/Sigma_Power.html

The same.
This mud is from about 80 strokes with a 1.5” block plane iron. Not as soft as the Bester 700 & 1200, but not nearly as hard as a Shapton.

 

[M1k3]

The same.
This mud is from about 80 strokes with a 1.5” block plane iron. Not as soft as the Bester 700 & 1200, but not nearly as hard as a Shapton.

Damn. Well, at least now I don't feel like I missed out on those stones.

 

[sanmateo]

In the non-friable category, how about

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/302F/Benchstone-Fine/80

there's also Spyderco's cubic boron nitride bench stone (model 306CBN)
supposed to have a hardness somewhere between silicon carbide and diamond, but more durable than the diamond-coated plates
one side is claimed to be 400 grit and the other 800 grit

I have one on order because I have been wanting to play with something aggressive. Anyone have experience with CBN?

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Damn. Well, at least now I don't feel like I missed out on those stones.

I love my Sigma Power Ceramic 1K and 2K stones. They are pretty hard. What they really are is FAST. They really chew through metal while leaving a nice edge. Cleaning them is a b!tch though.

I also had the Select II 400 and 6000. These underperformed for a variety of reasons and I ended up giving them away.

You may also want to consider some DMT or Atoma diamond plates if you like hard surfaces. DMT Coarse and Fine are able to produce remarkably good edges.

 

[M1k3]

I love my Sigma Power Ceramic 1K and 2K stones. They are pretty hard. What they really are is FAST. They really chew through metal while leaving a nice edge. Cleaning them is a b!tch though.

I also had the Select II 400 and 6000. These underperformed for a variety of reasons and I ended up giving them away.

You may also want to consider some DMT or Atoma diamond plates if you like hard surfaces. DMT Coarse and Fine are able to produce remarkably good edges.

I have diamond plates and resin bonded diamond stones. Much prefer the resin bonded.

I have the Select II 240. Really like it, just wanted a harder version.... But doesn't seem that line is as hard as the description says on the page.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I have diamond plates and resin bonded diamond stones. Much prefer the resin bonded.

I have the Select II 240. Really like it, just wanted a harder version.... But doesn't seem that line is as hard as the description says on the page.

I was on the hunt for a while for something like you are describing, a harder version of the Select II 240. I’ve seen reports online that have widely varying information on this hardness from quite soft to very hard.

I figured that since I like my SP Ceramic 1K and 2K so much and I am also a fan of very hard stones that logically a coarser Sigma Power would have even more speed. That kinda sent me on a journey that had me buying a lot of stones including some India’s and Crystolons (which I am real happy with too).

The Select II 400 isn’t very hard. It does work well with and is pretty fast with very hard steels. However, it leaves a pretty beat up edge and as such it cannot function as a finisher where some other very coarse stones can - such as a Crystalon Coarse.

Oddly enough, Sigma Power has a 240 in their Select II and one in their Ceramic lines. I don’t know if Sigma Power has gone under (I think they did) but I cannot find the Ceramic 240 for sale anywhere.

I also picked up the Suehiro Gokumyo 240. This is a pretty hard stone, especially for its coarse grit rating, and I like it a lot. The only problem is that it really should be called 500. It doesn’t have the speed or coarseness of a real 240. Also it is quite on the expensive side. Very good stone but a Shapton Glass 500 probably has similar performance at half the price.

My original intent was a very fast stone for hogging off metal like when thinning or re-beveling knives that are not mine. Think: relatives and friends with their beat up junkers. What did end up fitting this bill was a DMT Diaflat 95. This was a quite a bit more than I like to spend - I am a proponent of finding the solution at the lowest price point - but I picked it up on sale. This is the fastest “stone” I have and only surpassed by my belt sander. I’m pretty happy with it and glad to have added it to the collection. I still wouldn’t consider it a finisher and it needs to be followed by something else.

 

[M1k3]

I was on the hunt for a while for something like you are describing, a harder version of the Select II 240. I’ve seen reports online that have widely varying information on this hardness from quite soft to very hard.

I figured that since I like my SP Ceramic 1K and 2K so much and I am also a fan of very hard stones that logically a coarser Sigma Power would have even more speed. That kinda sent me on a journey that had me buying a lot of stones including some India’s and Crystolons (which I am real happy with too).

The Select II 400 isn’t very hard. It does work well with and is pretty fast with very hard steels. However, it leaves a pretty beat up edge and as such it cannot function as a finisher where some other very coarse stones can - such as a Crystalon Coarse.

Oddly enough, Sigma Power has a 240 in their Select II and one in their Ceramic lines. I don’t know if Sigma Power has gone under (I think they did) but I cannot find the Ceramic 240 for sale anywhere.

I also picked up the Suehiro Gokumyo 240. This is a pretty hard stone, especially for its coarse grit rating, and I like it a lot. The only problem is that it really should be called 500. It doesn’t have the speed or coarseness of a real 240. Also it is quite on the expensive side. Very good stone but a Shapton Glass 500 probably has similar performance at half the price.

My original intent was a very fast stone for hogging off metal like when thinning or re-beveling knives that are not mine. Think: relatives and friends with their beat up junkers. What did end up fitting this bill was a DMT Diaflat 95. This was a quite a bit more than I like to spend - I am a proponent of finding the solution at the lowest price point - but I picked it up on sale. This is the fastest “stone” I have and only surpassed by my belt sander. I’m pretty happy with it and glad to have added it to the collection. I still wouldn’t consider it a finisher and it needs to be followed by something else.

I was in the same boat. Tried many different stones. Once I got the Venev 100, I'm pretty much done looking. It's not 100% what I would consider a perfect coarse stone. It's definitely close enough that I stopped actively searching.