VG10-MAX vs VG-10 chipping problems.

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by HappyamateurDK, May 7, 2019.

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  1. May 7, 2019 #1

    HappyamateurDK

    HappyamateurDK

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    Hallo all.

    So I got this shun premier from my wife, she bought it with advice from a local specialist store, because she knew I prefer western style and large handles. And I must say I really like it so far. She was told a MAC pro would also be a good choice but the handle is just to small for me( I have tried it earlier )

    I know shun in general are very disliked on this forum. And is often considered overpriced mainstream. Time will tell if I feel the same. But will ofcourse make my own opinion.

    Anyway. The steel is something they call VG10-MAX. Does anyone here know what the difference is to ordinary VG10?

    When reading on the internet apparently chipping is not uncommon with shun knives. Is that a thing of the past, or are that still a problem with VG10-MAX.

    I own 3 other knives in VG10( 2 tojiro and a senjen ) and I have never experienced chipping at all.

    The shun as well as my other Japanese knives will only be used on wood boards, and not for rough stuff. I have a Fdick and a zwilling for that.

    Anything else I could do to avoid chipping of the edge?

    Thanks in advance.

    Søren
     
  2. May 7, 2019 #2

    da_mich*

    da_mich*

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    The Shun premier blades are very very thin and brittle. I restored a lot of them. At most time the chipping is caused by missusing. Cutting meat with bones, frozen things, bread with a hard crust or else can cause this type of damage. I recommend to use it only with soft things like fillets, vegetables & fruits without a core.
     
  3. May 7, 2019 #3

    HappyamateurDK

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    That was pretty much my plan..I.don't cut those things with my other Japanese knifes either

    I mostly use them for vegetables and meat without bones.

    But should I assume that my shun is more prone to chipping then my tojiros?
     
  4. May 7, 2019 #4

    da_mich*

    da_mich*

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    I don´t know it. I restored ~60 knifes and near 100% of the chipped knifes are from Kai. Other knifes are rusty, scractched or with broken tips but Kai blades are always chipped. In my oppinon chipping is a huge Kai problem.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  5. May 7, 2019 #5

    Larrin

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  6. May 7, 2019 #6

    Eloh

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  7. May 7, 2019 #7

    HappyamateurDK

    HappyamateurDK

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    Thanks for the input. It will be exciting to see if chipping will also be a problem with thoughtful use. Time will tell.
     
  8. May 7, 2019 #8

    stringer

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    I have owned several vg-10 knives and 1 vg-max shun premier chef knife. They are very similar.
    Both get brittle if you go to aggressive with the cutting edge and will be prone to chipping if you abuse them. Both have a fail mode tendency toward chipping as opposed to edge rolling. So if you're used to soft stainless they might seem chippy. And I imagine most buyers of vg-max are coming from soft stainless and not Heiji and TF.
    But you can also put a chunkier bevel on vg-max/10 and they will do fine in even the most demanding conditions. Shun's suck because they are handle heavy and half of their cost is tied up in marketing and retail/overhead/profit margins. But the steel is fine. I put a really chunky edge on my Shun because I didn't really feel like thinning it and used it for a lobster/chicken knife for a long time in a professional environment.
     
  9. May 7, 2019 #9

    HappyamateurDK

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    So if I understand you correctly. I should be able to use the shun the same way I use my tojiro DP. Because of the similar steel ?
     
  10. May 7, 2019 #10

    stringer

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    Yes. Grind and profile will be different obviously. But the steel should be very similar. Both are stainless clad vg-.
     
  11. May 7, 2019 #11

    Benuser

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    A lot of blades are chippy with their factory edge. Must have to do with factory buffering. Brand new with fatigued steel. After a few sharpenings it's over. Or go for the more radical treatment: start sharpening with a 320 or so, and raise a fat burr to make sure your new edge is made of fresh steel.
     
  12. May 7, 2019 #12

    Paraffin

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    My wife has used a Shun premier santoku for a few years now. No problem with chipping, but she knows the drill about knife care -- no 90 degree lateral scraping on the board, no contact with bones, no throwing it in the sink or dishwasher with silverware. We use soft wood Hinoki boards for veg, or rubber Hi-Soft boards for raw protein. Treat it like you would a good carbon steel knife, and it's fine.

    Sharpening isn't exactly fun, but that's true of other stainless knives I sharpen in R2, HAP40, or VG10/VG2. I don't notice any significant difference in feel on the stones with VG-Max. I use the same edge angle as my Japanese carbon steel knives.
     
  13. May 7, 2019 #13

    CoteRotie

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    I have a Shun classic boning knife in VG-Max.

    My wife tossed it in to a sink full of forks and knives from more than a meter away as I was screaming "nooooooooo!" Any high hardness knife would have chipped from that abuse, and this one had four or five 0.5-1mm chips in the edge.

    I fixed the chips and put a true razor edge on it, and with proper use it hasn't chipped since. So VG-Max is capable of getting very sharp and in my case hasn't chipped with proper use, even with a very thin edge.

    My wife now has a dedicated Wusthof chef's knife and a couple of Wusthof paring knives that she can throw around at will.
     
  14. May 7, 2019 #14

    HappyamateurDK

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    My wife mostly use an old zwilling and a little MAC pro. Those are her knives and she refuse to use mine because she won't listen to my complaints when she use them wrong.
     
  15. May 8, 2019 #15

    playero

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    Do you guys have different knives from your wife? How do you divide them? Do they complain?
     
  16. May 8, 2019 #16

    HappyamateurDK

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    Yep..it's not that she's not allowed to use mine. But she doesn't wan't to listen to my complaints when she use them wrong. And her opinion is that her old zwilling and her little mac is perfectly fine for everything..and to be fair she always gets the job done perfectly fine. They are placed in the same drawer.
     
  17. May 8, 2019 #17

    Bert2368

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    It was just a Henckels 4 star parer. Old, had it since 1984.

    But when I saw her grab it and start to use it to pry open the (glued shut!) heavy "engineering grade" plastic case of an instrument needing to be fixed, my shriek was ear piercing.

    She still bent the %$#&! out of it before I wrested it from her grip.

    I carefully hammered it (reasonably) straight. And still use it.
     
  18. May 8, 2019 #18

    Paraffin

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    This is going to be different for everyone, so don't draw too many conclusions about wives or other Significant Others. We're all different, our relationships are all different.

    I'm very fortunate in having a wife with a Dad who raised her as a tool-user. She had her own toolbox as a small child, learned to drive on a farm tractor before she ever got near a car. A real science geek too; as much into computer tech as I am. So we share the knife drawer in our home kitchen.

    She prefers stainless steel for convenience, so she uses mostly our Sukenari 165mm petty in Hap40, a Shun santoku in VG-Max, and a Kurosaki 180mm nakiri in R2. But she'll also use one of my carbon steel knives like the Y. Ikeda 115mm petty for some things. She knows how to dry it off before putting it away, and she knows all the other knife care routines. I don't have to explain why you don't throw a sharp knife into a metal sink with other silverware. She gets it.

    We're both cooks, share the kitchen equally. My past relationships weren't all like that, but this one's a keeper (going on 21 years now).
     
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  19. May 8, 2019 #19

    zizirex

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    VG-10 max from Shun is same as normal VG-10, it is just a marketing thing. I asked one of the knife vendors he said that he was informed from Takefu Steel guy that Shun uses its normal VG-10.

    Shun somehow does a bit terrible HT or maybe because it is not forged... because Tojiro DP seems to have less chippy problem in amateur's hands.
     
  20. May 8, 2019 #20

    HappyamateurDK

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    Sounds to me like chipping is mostly a problem for people who use them wrong.
     
  21. May 8, 2019 #21

    zizirex

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    That’s is 99% true.. but good maker know how to make it less chippy when **** happens. But the grind also one of the factor.
     
  22. May 8, 2019 #22

    HappyamateurDK

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    Time will tell if also i end up hating shun as much as most people in here. So far I actually like the balance and western style blade that many complain about. So it is pretty much down to the stel now.
     
  23. May 8, 2019 #23

    Larrin

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  24. May 8, 2019 #24

    CoteRotie

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    I do 100% of the main meal cooking, and she doesn't see value in any knife you can't put in the dishwasher, so after the chipping incident she doesn't touch my knives at all. She has her Wusthofs for whenever she makes a snack or something for work.
     
  25. May 9, 2019 #25

    Tanalasta

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    I suspect chipping is due to:

    Higher incidence due to a higher prevalence of Shun users in the community.

    Knife abuse. Knives chip. There’re microchips on my Toyama as a new blade and it was only very light prep.

    My Shun’s have never chipped. And I sometimes mistreat them...
     
  26. May 9, 2019 #26

    HappyamateurDK

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    Sounds good. Are your shun's VG10 ?
     
  27. May 9, 2019 #27

    minibatataman

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    Easy, I got her a kiwi knife. That's her knife. She doesn't use any of the other knives in that drawer.
     
  28. May 9, 2019 #28

    Tanalasta

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    Chefs classic range. VGmax brwnddd
     
  29. May 10, 2019 #29

    BrianShaw

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    I’ve actually been quite satisfied with mine for almost a decade.

    Had very minor chipping (micro-chipping, I would call it) once on a factory edge. Twice had bent tips - once from dropping on ceramic tile floor and once when housekeeper used it to pry something. Ex-housekeeper.
     
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  30. May 10, 2019 #30

    HappyamateurDK

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    Good to hear.

    Due to some other interest I follow some other forums on the internet. Forums that are about car parts and hifi equipment. usually there is a pattern. For stuff to be acknowledged as " good " it has to be very special and very expensive. Everything mainstream sold by large companies to ordinary people are per definition bad products.

    Maybe some people here feel the same about knives
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019

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