VG10-MAX vs VG-10 chipping problems.

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There are a lot of opinions on the Internet that are factual and a lot that are based in emotion and a lot that are based in assumption and a lot that are based in bad information. It is quite a challenge to decipher internet information sometimes.

... and then there is the internet gang and bullying mentality that makes things even more difficult.

Your headed in the right direction by figuring out for yourself what works for YOU.
 
There are a lot of opinions on the Internet that are factual and a lot that are based in emotion and a lot that are based in assumption and a lot that are based in bad information. It is quite a challenge to decipher internet information sometimes.


... and then there is the internet gang and bullying mentality that makes things even more difficult.

Your headed in the right direction by figuring out for yourself what works for YOU.

That is the same on every forum on every subject on the internet.
 
I am in the pro shun group with one very important caveat: Never buy new. Always buy used at more than 50% off retail. If you do, shuns are not bad at all and I have enjoyed all of mine.
 
I am in the pro shun group with one very important caveat: Never buy new. Always buy used at more than 50% off retail. If you do, shuns are not bad at all and I have enjoyed all of mine.

But why used? Is it all about price or?
 
Most of my Shuns are gifts from people who know I like Japanese knives and don't really know much about them. However, they're reasonably good knives. Hardly ever the first thing I reach for unless I'm cutting citrus or something else highly acidic, in which case they are a good stainless option.
 
There are a lot of opinions on the Internet that are factual and a lot that are based in emotion and a lot that are based in assumption and a lot that are based in bad information. It is quite a challenge to decipher internet information sometimes.

... and then there is the internet gang and bullying mentality that makes things even more difficult.

Your headed in the right direction by figuring out for yourself what works for YOU.


While this might be true. I base ALL decisions/EVERYTHING I buy from other peoples verdicts on stuff pretty much. If you read enough comments on something "the truth" will somehow start to show it self.

I have never been disappointed with anything I researched and then bought. they were pretty much spot on. go figure. really surprising. If you cruise enough forums and stuff you will quickly learn how to "weigh" the comments.
You basically have to judge the posters knowledge and experience with the product/other similar products and his general knowhow somehow. when you manage to do this then you can read between the lines. what are they really saying..
 
Shun parers are excellent...other knives are fine too if you like the somewhat odd profiles.
 
anyone tried that one where they welded 2 steels together in a sawlike pattern (non damascus)? is it good?
vg10/vg2 real damascus supposedly or more correctly "pattern welded".

looks kickass to me at least. just look at it!

vg0021_7-in._santoku_1.png



personally i think most of the bad reporting stems from user inexperience. they simply find a flashy knife in a store and buy it for their accountant husband to replace his 5mm thick 20bux wusthoff.
hubby goes on a can opening and screwdriving spree and hey, who would have guessed it. it chipped out. the horror!!! surprise surprise... then on top of that they might me hardened more chippy than the true premium brands.

just a little story for you guys. a buddy at work just got a jck hattori forum santoku in vg10 on my recommedation. dreaded vg10 right. and he reports no "impossible burrs" to get rid of. instead he reports very good edge holding, and very high max attainable sharpness. and no chippyness/brittleness at all. and also the best fit and finish he has ever seen. I also thought it was very very good FF since i have handled it. but not better then my shiki limited edition (now called the black dragon series). So none of the reported problems with vg10 is existing in his blade. go figure.

So is shuns vg10 HT sh1t or is vg10 sh1t? i'd say some companies HT is sh1t. also my shiki LE is superb. both in use and on the stones. no burrs from hell there! how can this possibly be??????

Sure i think maybe shuns vg10 HT is not up to hattoris forum vg10 standards, judging from all reports of it being crap. and no smoke without fire, you can bet your ass on that! the hattoris at least are made by Ryusen or at least HT'ed by them, but I think most of the vg-10 problems is that people are abusing the blades. vg10 is not global aus6, or wusthoff krupp at 52hrc. Not even in its softest usable state. its much much more brittle than these other 0,5-0,6C% steels. but if done right its good! probably up there with r2 and other powders to be honest

the other problem i think people are experiencing is that most of these mass produced blades are truly mass produced. big ass belt grinders. high belt speeds, and at the very edge you will get temperatures above 1000C and that means you are now rehardening the blade pretty much. and since all knife SS is "air hardening" its will most definitely re-harden at the very edge at the thinnest point. BUT with the exception that you dont actually TEMPER it again to remove that "as quenched" hardness/brittleness. so its brittle sh1t out of the box. this is phucking rocket science.

A trick i usually do is that i simply completely kill the edge on all my new blades and then remove maybe a mm or so of the edge, and then thin them out and flatten the sides. And none of my knives has been "chippy" nor brittle" sure a beer can took a 5mm bite out of a kuraski AS edge after quite many blows. so i say it shall pass, with the highest stamp of approval actually.

so i say grind off 1-2mm edge of your shun then judge it. I guess they are mostly fine by then. all of them pretty much. or at least ok in the general sense.
 
anyone tried that one where they welded 2 steels together in a sawlike pattern (non damascus)? is it good?
vg10/vg2 real damascus supposedly or more correctly "pattern welded".

looks kickass to me at least. just look at it!

Yeah, I bought the kiritsuke (double bevel) version of that series when I was just starting to get back into Japanese knives. Bought it on sale for something like $210. I agree with the advice above, that if you're curious about any of the higher-priced Shuns you should get them on sale if you can. Especially the odd ones like this.

The main selling point hype was this: " During normal use, the two steels will wear at different rates creating micro serrations along the edge so that the Dual Core’s extremely sharp edge feels sharp longer." Yeah, not really. Not in my experience anyway. The feel when sharpening and the edge retention feels exactly the same as my wife's VG-Max Shun santoku, and similar enough to our knives in R2 or Hap40. It's just another hard stainless knife in that respect. If the edge looks any different from a normal sharpened edge bevel from a monosteel, it's at a level where I can't see it or feel it in practice.

The other selling point is "Etched laminations in the blade reduce drag, helping food release from the blade and gliding through each cut quickly and easily. " Now that one may have at least a smidgen of validity. This has become my preferred knife for cutting potato rounds. It has good release, but it's not like a night and day difference. It may just be that my other knives are a little stickier than some others, and not that this one is so great.

The other reason I like it for potatoes, and also for hard squash, is that it's a very robust knife. The grind is still relatively thin, but the steel feels very strong, not at all bendy. Maybe there is some added strength from the pattern weld of two slightly different steels? I dunno. It's kind of a goofy knife, and way overpriced at full cost if you don't find it on sale. But I like using it for hard veg cutting to spare my finer Japanese carbon knives.
vg0017_1.jpg
 
The main selling point hype was this: " During normal use, the two steels will wear at different rates creating micro serrations along the edge so that the Dual Core’s extremely sharp edge feels sharp longer."
vg0017_1.jpg

this is (even theoretically) complete BS and it was the same 30 years ago with real "damascus" knives (real damascus is AFAIK actually wootz and that is a completely differenet thing allinall.) . if anything the lesser steel just degrades the better steel more than it in theory should. AND ONLY one of them can be hardened and tempered properly, and that fact alone should make people run away.... I was slightly sceptical even in the early 2000nds to even "real" damascus claims. and i guess i was right. having read a few books about steel and HTing by then. I feel i din't really miss out on stuff.
 
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still want to hear user stories though. it can still be good enough for me. i'm just a lowly worker.
 
I have owned several vg-10 knives and 1 vg-max shun premier chef knife. They are very similar.
Both get brittle if you go to aggressive with the cutting edge and will be prone to chipping if you abuse them. Both have a fail mode tendency toward chipping as opposed to edge rolling. So if you're used to soft stainless they might seem chippy. And I imagine most buyers of vg-max are coming from soft stainless and not Heiji and TF.
But you can also put a chunkier bevel on vg-max/10 and they will do fine in even the most demanding conditions. Shun's suck because they are handle heavy and half of their cost is tied up in marketing and retail/overhead/profit margins. But the steel is fine. I put a really chunky edge on my Shun because I didn't really feel like thinning it and used it for a lobster/chicken knife for a long time in a professional environment.

I've had a similar experience. I keep my friend's Shun sharpened up. The more acute I take the edge, the more the edge chips out. If I back up to a solid 15deg/side, it seems to hold without chipping for quite a while. Food release ain't bad either. Not my favorite, way too much belly for my taste, but I don't mind using it nearly as much as the old Wusthof I used to put up with at her place.

She's pretty brutal with it. Leaves it dirty, wet, in the sink, under the dish rack. Everything short of the dishwasher. I have to say it's held up pretty well, and cuts pretty well when asked. Easy to sharpen, never seen the gnarly burr issues I see floating around.
 
so they are quite chippy even when sharpened a few times?? am i interpreting this right? i wasnt really in the market though i guess.
 
Well, it's a Shun, so it's Shun VG-10. And yes, seems to chip when sharpened at low angles for me. However, I've heard Shun is far from the best of the VG-10 bunch, and possibly inconsistent as well. Who knows. It's still a good knife, take it over a modern German or French knife every day. It's better in most situations than my vintage Sab. Think I even prefer it over a couple Globals I've tried. Prefer my Mac, but mostly for the handle and profile. Once I start getting into the Sukenaris and Asais, the Shun has been left behind, but those are very different knives. The Shun profile is a bit bollocks, but there's nothing wrong with the knife. Just not the sexiest, but it works really well for my SO's situation. I really don't mind using it. My two cents.

I'd believe a reputable vendor who recommends a good VG-10, based on an OK experience with and OK example. It may not have quite the sex appeal of other steels, but I'm honestly really curious to try one with a good heat treat. There are still a couple Hiromotos at JCK, and I can't imagine they're bad knives. I just don't like caring for suminagashi finishes.
 
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Basically your observation reflects every one else observation with shuns. :) i have none of them.

many times they chippyness of edges are caused by overheating the edge when grinding the edge at the factory. and it goes away after maybe 2-4 sharpenings. but if it doesn't then either the material is unsuitable or the HT is sh1t. thats it pretty much. or not optimal for the task at hand at least. for the users that own them.

I think mac makes very good knives. much better than global. feels much better on the stones too. i like the cryoed ones. very good steel perfomance of those. they call it the "superior steel"
 
A little follow up.

I have used it quite a bit now. Maybe 8-10 hours in all. And no chipping at all so far. But I have bin cautious not using it on bones frozen food, sand from salats and so on.

I still like the profile on the blade..maybe it is because I am used to my F-dick and zwilling as well as a Tojiro DP. The shun feels lighter and much more nimble then the tojiro that is also 3 centimeters longer. But I still prefer the handle on my tojiro. It just feels more solid and like a tool that is meant to be used.

All in all I am so far very happy with the shun.
 
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I will say there are some serious gimmicks at Shun. Love this video. Notice how “easily” it cuts the tomato.

I know it’s easy to jump on them, but their bread-and-butter stuff is pretty good. I can think of better ways to spend $375 though...
 
I will say there are some serious gimmicks at Shun. Love this video. Notice how “easily” it cuts the tomato.

I know it’s easy to jump on them, but their bread-and-butter stuff is pretty good. I can think of better ways to spend $375 though...


Haha, lovely!!!
 
amazing that he has to move back and forth when this should be a straight cut
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Either poor technique or a dull knife. I have a few Shuns as well and they definitely sharpen up well enough to push cut a tomato in a single slice. So not sure what the sawing is all about :)
 
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Either poor technique or a dull knife. I have a few Shuns as well and they definitely sharpen up well enough to push cut a tomato in a single slice. So not sure what the sawing is all about :)

Yeah, if I wanted to push a knife brand by showing off how sharp it is I would not use a hesitant sawing technique. Can anyone be impressed by that shun clip?
 
Yeah, if I wanted to push a knife brand by showing off how sharp it is I would not use a hesitant sawing technique. Can anyone be impressed by that shun clip?
The problem here isn't that this is a Shun knife. The problem is that this is a dull knife.

Whether a knife is sharp or not has nothing to do with who makes it. You can sharpen the edge of a tin can so it cuts like a scalpel…
 
The problem here isn't that this is a Shun knife. The problem is that this is a dull knife.

Whether a knife is sharp or not has nothing to do with who makes it. You can sharpen the edge of a tin can so it cuts like a scalpel…

Yup, I agree, and I am not saying anything that contradicts what you are saying. So, what did you mean by your comment?
 
What I found funny was simply the fact that someone would use a dull knife for shooting a commercial or a clip. But that holds for all brands, and not Shun in particular.
 
If your other VG10 knives have not chipped it means you take care of your knives. The premiere is one of the better shuns take care of it & will serve you well. Reason discounted are best is because they tend to be over priced for what they are. That and some shuns have crappy geometry and grinds.
 
Ive had a shun 6" chef and nakiri(both from slt) for almost 10 years now and have only had the tip of the nakiri chip from someone trying to rock chop on it. I haven't really used them in 2 years or so though.

That being said, all my friends that have shun knives have lots of chips. Dunno if its misuse or bad factory edges, but I would go to say 100% of shun knives I've seen at my friends/family have chips
 
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