D. Martell Wa Handle Construction - Martell Knives

[Dave Martell]

So this is mostly a post for the other makers out there having issues with making wa handles......but maybe my customers might like to see it too?



It's common for most (wa) handle makers today to use a dowel internally to provide stability/security while shaping the handle (off knife). This is sort of like making a dowel to work like (what we get from) a tang when shaping a handle while it's mounted on the knife. This is especially important to a maker when metal spacers are involved in the build as they tend to hold onto heat and melt the epoxy allowing the handle to come apart but when a dowel is used this problem pretty much isn't an issue.

Using dowels internally does add a lot of strength for to a handle, for sure, but I don't believe it's necessary for kitchen knives since they're not used in a manner that requires such characteristics like say a camp knife would require (chopping, etc). I only use dowels for the reasons noted.

I first used a single dowel in my wa handles, like most other makers employ, but I found this limiting and looked for another method. The reasons for this...

1. When a single (large) hole is drilled it's difficult to keep the hole running straight as the depth increases.

2. Bigger drill bits cost more money and are harder to find. The same is true for dowels.

3. The size of the hole/dowel limits the size/shape that the finished handle can be brought to. Using a large internal hole/dowel often meant wider handles than I wanted to provide, especially the case on small petty handles.

4. When making handles for several different size knives one needs to make different sized handles, this means many different size dowels and drill bits to keep on hand. With the double dowel method I can use one size drill and dowel for all handles.



This is my construction method for wa handles. Thoughts?

 

[AT5760]

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain @Dave Martell. What types of tools/abrasives do you use the shape the metal spacers?

 

[birdsfan]

I would have never considered that approach. I envision some alignment benefits during assembly too and the ability to predrill a bunch of components to have on hand. Pretty cool!

 

[Dave Martell]

What types of tools/abrasives do you use the shape the metal spacers?

The most helpful tool I have for spacer work is my 9" disc grinder that I use to square up the spacers so that I can mount them in the drill press vise.

 

[Dave Martell]

One thing I forgot to mention as a positive to using two smaller holes stacked vs one large hole is that you won't see the internal components through lighter colored materials,like blond buffalo horn, when the handle is complete.

 

[Dave Martell]

And for reference, here's the completed handle....

 

[Matus]

Thank you for sharing this Dave.

 

[rogue108]

Genius. This solves so many problems I have with wa handle construction other than I'm not good at it.
.
If you don't mind me asking.

What diameter are the holes? 3/8"?

How are you determining the amount of overlap and centering each hole to be drilled?

Thanks

 

[Dave Martell]

Genius. This solves so many problems I have with wa handle construction other than I'm not good at it.
.
If you don't mind me asking.

What diameter are the holes? 3/8"?

How are you determining the amount of overlap and centering each hole to be drilled?

Thanks

Hi Andrew,
You guessed correct on the size - I'm using 3/8" dowels . The holes are drilled slightly oversize to allow for a bit of wiggle room, can't recall the bit size off the top of my head though. I can give a tip that I should have mentioned before - use a brad point drill bit here - this will allow you to drill an overlapped (2nd) hole without the bit walking into the already drilled (1st) hole.

Regarding the overlap sizing, how I do this is that I use the height of the tang to determine this measurement. Basically I mark the material (on the end that needs drilling) by tracing the tang and then drill the holes inside these marks, this gives me the correct overlay for the specific tang I'm working with. To then size the dowels to fit is simply a matter of removing material until they both fit together and slide into the holes.

 

[DT74]

What are the materials on that handle?

 

[gregfisk]

Your two dowel system seems like a good idea! I have been grinding my tangs down thinner and drilling a 5/16” hole. I only keep the tang thicker on the first half inch and drill that area a little larger. Then I use a 5/16” dowel and the larger area gets filled up with epoxy. This works fine on smaller knives 6” or less but I’m not sure about strength on larger ones. I’m not making wa handles but I am making hidden tang handles so I run into the same issues.

 

[Dave Martell]

What are the materials on that handle?

It's koa and buffalo horn paired with nickel silver & G10 spacers. The internal dowels are poplar.

 

[gregfisk]

Dave, do you have a source you can share for the nickel silver material? Thanks

 

[Carterwhopkins]

Dave, do you have a source you can share for the nickel silver material? Thanks

You can get nickel silver sheets and rods/bars at any of the knife maker supply shops and on Amazon.

 

[gregfisk]

Thanks Carter, I’ve seen it on Amazon but I was wondering if there was a better source that wasn’t a prized secret. It’s not super expensive on Amazon but it’s not cheap either. I’ve been using aluminum for my cap material and spacers. It has its pluses and minuses.

 

[Carterwhopkins]

Thanks Carter, I’ve seen it on Amazon but I was wondering if there was a better source that wasn’t a prized secret. It’s not super expensive on Amazon but it’s not cheap either. I’ve been using aluminum for my cap material and spacers. It has its pluses and minuses.

I don't know the price difference between the supply shops and Amazon, I order from both. Generally, the shipping will be free from Amazon (assuming Prime), it will not be free from the supply shops, so I order from the shops when I need addtl knife making supplies.

NS is much better than Alum....when I started making handles, I used a bunch of Alum....almost never use it now. You will generally need two thicknesses of NS, one for spacers in the ferrule and the other thicker for a spacer at the endcap.

 

[gregfisk]

I make hidden tang handles but they’re not wa handles. I use the aluminum for spacers throughout the handle which are thinner and then use thicker aluminum for the end caps. I’m sure ns is better overall. I like the color of ns better than aluminum too.

 

[SeattleB]

I've never worked on knife handles. I know a bit about woodworking and there are mortising bits available down to 1/4 inch. I'm suspect you've considered them. What would be the pros/cons?

 

[Carterwhopkins]

Here are a couple of western handles. NS polishes a bit better than alum and is more scratch resistant. Also, NS is more common for pins and other adornments. Sorry for the black blob, I have to hide my logo when posting here.

 

[Rom]

So this is mostly a post for the other makers out there having issues with making wa handles......but maybe my customers might like to see it too?



It's common for most (wa) handle makers today to use a dowel internally to provide stability/security while shaping the handle (off knife). This is sort of like making a dowel to work like (what we get from) a tang when shaping a handle while it's mounted on the knife. This is especially important to a maker when metal spacers are involved in the build as they tend to hold onto heat and melt the epoxy allowing the handle to come apart but when a dowel is used this problem pretty much isn't an issue.

Using dowels internally does add a lot of strength for to a handle, for sure, but I don't believe it's necessary for kitchen knives since they're not used in a manner that requires such characteristics like say a camp knife would require (chopping, etc). I only use dowels for the reasons noted.

I first used a single dowel in my wa handles, like most other makers employ, but I found this limiting and looked for another method. The reasons for this...

1. When a single (large) hole is drilled it's difficult to keep the hole running straight as the depth increases.

2. Bigger drill bits cost more money and are harder to find. The same is true for dowels.

3. The size of the hole/dowel limits the size/shape that the finished handle can be brought to. Using a large internal hole/dowel often meant wider handles than I wanted to provide, especially the case on small petty handles.

4. When making handles for several different size knives one needs to make different sized handles, this means many different size dowels and drill bits to keep on hand. With the double dowel method I can use one size drill and dowel for all handles.



This is my construction method for wa handles. Thoughts?



View attachment 98239

This is a great handle construction method.

 

[Dave Martell]

Dave, do you have a source you can share for the nickel silver material? Thanks

You can get nickel silver sheets and rods/bars at any of the knife maker supply shops and on Amazon.

Thanks Carter, I’ve seen it on Amazon but I was wondering if there was a better source that wasn’t a prized secret. It’s not super expensive on Amazon but it’s not cheap either. I’ve been using aluminum for my cap material and spacers. It has its pluses and minuses.

I don't know the price difference between the supply shops and Amazon, I order from both. Generally, the shipping will be free from Amazon (assuming Prime), it will not be free from the supply shops, so I order from the shops when I need addtl knife making supplies.

NS is much better than Alum....when I started making handles, I used a bunch of Alum....almost never use it now. You will generally need two thicknesses of NS, one for spacers in the ferrule and the other thicker for a spacer at the endcap.

I buy nickel silver sheets (and bars) from most all of the knifemaker supply places. I think most of what I have now is from Jantz because I ordered when I was getting some other stuff. My copper pin stock came from ebay many years ago, I bought like 2 dozen 5 ft lengths, it was super cheap going this way.

 

[Dave Martell]

I've never worked on knife handles. I know a bit about woodworking and there are mortising bits available down to 1/4 inch. I'm suspect you've considered them. What would be the pros/cons?

I considered them but never took the chance to buy them and try.

 

[northside]

I never considered using two pieces of dowel. I imagine that you would likely get better surface area for your glue using two dowel as opposed to one. I use quite a bit of blonde horn so I’ll be sure to give this a shot in the future. Thanks for sharing!

 

[gregfisk]

I thought you might find this interesting. I have been stacking several different types of wood, aluminum, copper, G10 and micarta to make these paring knife handles.

Because the pieces don’t want to stay together when I’m grinding the handles into shape, I first drill two 1/8” holes the length of the handle. Then I glue in two bamboo skewers. Once those have dried I drill my hole for the tang. Then I can grind my handles into shape without fear of them coming apart.

 

[Dave Martell]

I thought you might find this interesting. I have been stacking several different types of wood, aluminum, copper, G10 and micarta to make these paring knife handles. View attachment 112655Because the pieces don’t want to stay together when I’m grinding the handles into shape, I first drill two 1/8” holes the length of the handle. Then I glue in two bamboo skewers. Once those have dried I drill my hole for the tang. Then I can grind my handles into shape without fear of them coming apart.

Cool idea!

 

[Dave Martell]

Today I was putting together a handle that's going to be mounted onto a small 160mm nakiri that has a pretty small tang. Because the tang is so small, and the handle will not be large, I decided to use only a single 3/8" dowel for internal support. This brought up yet another issue that I had forgot to mention on my initial post and that is in using double dowels (in a figure 8 configuration) the slot in the dowels remain aligned while assembling/glue up is occurring. I had forgot how a single dowel can spin if the hole is even the slightest bit oversized. Anyway, just another reason why I like this double dowel method.

 

[JoBone]

I think that double dowel is pretty slick.

I moved away from the clamps that you turn to tighten to help avoid the spin. Even so, it periodically happens and I need to spend extra time with my files.

 

[Skylar303]

Thanks Carter, I’ve seen it on Amazon but I was wondering if there was a better source that wasn’t a prized secret. It’s not super expensive on Amazon but it’s not cheap either. I’ve been using aluminum for my cap material and spacers. It has its pluses and minuses.

I've been stalking the handle threads for a while and am debating if I want to dip my toes in that ocean... I grabbed a few bags of assorted hardwoods for other projects and some are only 4"x1.5" blocks, which I thought maybe good for cleaver handles? But I think they use 5" blanks or bigger. 4" in my hands is even small... What's the blanks dimensions for a cleaver handle? I know sorry in the wrong thread probably... Or is it sort of subjective lengths/thicknesses? And not really a "standard dimensions"?

Also the first few I saw used 1 dowel hollowed out down the middle for the tang. I was thinking "that's a lot of work, why not just split the dowel since it's hidden"? Well jokes on me. Some already do!

 

[tostadas]

I've been stalking the handle threads for a while and am debating if I want to dip my toes in that ocean... I grabbed a few bags of assorted hardwoods for other projects and some are only 4"x1.5" blocks, which I thought maybe good for cleaver handles? But I think they use 5" blanks or bigger. 4" in my hands is even small... What's the blanks dimensions for a cleaver handle? I know sorry in the wrong thread probably... Or is it sort of subjective lengths/thicknesses? And not really a "standard dimensions"?

Also the first few I saw used 1 dowel hollowed out down the middle for the tang. I was thinking "that's a lot of work, why not just split the dowel since it's hidden"? Well jokes on me. Some already do!

4inch is enough for a full size knife if you plan to add a ferrule piece also. And hollowing out the dowel is super easy and takes a few mins with just a hand saw. For a cleaver or utility knife, I like to have at least 120mm which is a little less than 4in

 

[Skylar303]

4inch is enough for a full size knife if you plan to add a ferrule piece also. And hollowing out the dowel is super easy and takes a few mins with just a hand saw. For a cleaver or utility knife, I like to have at least 120mm which is a little less than 4in

Ah totally forgot about the ferrule! ... Duh... Is there a 'general rule' to ferrule length? (EDIT - 'Traditional Style' I suppose you would call it.) They seem to be generally around the same? Seeing as going too far too thin or too thick may not look as great. Of course that probably is subjective as well.

Glad I can use these blocks then! I just see people often use 6" blanks for "regular size knife handles"? Or is that just the length blanks are usually available in?