Wa vs Western handle

[BrokenChef]

I'm curious to hear from others who spent a long time using a Western handle, then got a wa handle.

Did you have a hard time adjusting?

Is there really that much of a difference?

I'm trying to narrow down what my first purchase will be, and the handle is one of the big differences - so it seems to me.

I'm also more of a Rosewood kids guy and most of the way handles just look like octagonal broom sticks (to me).

I'm more of a Kamon handle guy, but even some of his aren't exactly traditional westerns.

Open to thoughts, comments, experiences on every handle out there!

Thanks!!!

 

[Gshep91]

I haven’t had much, if any issue using wa handles. I will say when I first got into the J knife world I swore off westerns but the truth is, I do find them more comfortable although less aesthetic.

 

[Blumbo]

When I first started I exclusively sought western handles because it was what I was used to and I was mind controlled into thinking they were better because blah blah full tang and rivets. Wish I tried a wa handle sooner - I find them in general to be more comfortable, more nimble, and better balanced especially with a pinch grip.

 

[Just a DK]

I think if you pinch the knife kind of handle matters less, just kind of acts as a lever. Wa handles for me is actually easier to get that balance right for me (weight balance right before the pinch) and with Wa's swapping to get it right is easy.

Can also do more fun stuff like WH's with much more forward balance or petty's with more balance at or right behind pinch.

Yo's almost always feel like the handle is heavier (probs due to size of tang) and I end up not liking that.

 

[Qapla']

I reserve Wa handles for actual wa-bocho (such as usuba, deba, and yanagiba). I do not suffer them on Western or Western-style knives.

 

[esoo]

I generally prefer wa handles as they tend to be lighter, so the blade will balance at the pinch or just in front.

My one western/yo handle is a ZKramer 10" and it fits perfectly because the weight in the handle balances the heavier, longer blade perfectly at the pinch

 

[BrokenChef]

I think if you pinch the knife kind of handle matters less, just kind of acts as a lever. Wa handles for me is actually easier to get that balance right for me (weight balance right before the pinch) and with Wa's swapping to get it right is easy.

Can also do more fun stuff like WH's with much more forward balance or petty's with more balance at or right behind pinch.

Yo's almost always feel like the handle is heavier (probs due to size of tang) and I end up not liking that.

I hear ya on the full tang/rivets. Almost seems like a wa would fall right off. One of the reasons I like Kamon... Looks like the blade would break before the handle gives way.

I've never paid attention to balance before but that was a thought too... With a short little tang, it seems like it would be blade heavy.

I can see how a full on pinch grip almost negates the handle. I tend to choke up pretty far on the blade with just my palm resting on top of the handle for most things.

 

[mc2442]

I went full convert, I have, almost exclusively, we handles. Octoganal, d shaped, round......etc, like them a lot more than western on most knives.

 

[BrokenChef]

I reserve Wa handles for actual wa-bocho (such as usuba, deba, and yanagiba). I do not suffer them on Western or Western-style knives.

::::flipping through dictionary::::

Good learning opportunity here, lol

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I hear ya on the full tang/rivets. Almost seems like a wa would fall right off. One of the reasons I like Kamon... Looks like the blade would break before the handle gives way.

I've never paid attention to balance before but that was a thought too... With a short little tang, it seems like it would be blade heavy.

I can see how a full on pinch grip almost negates the handle. I tend to choke up pretty far on the blade with just my palm resting on top of the handle for most things.

In my opinion, the number one benefit of wa handles, as others have said, is balance. It can be a significant difference. A yo or western handle is sexy and classic. They are also super heavy and shift the weight away from the knife tip.

Just like yo handles, not all wa handles are the same. You can have a heavy handle like ebony or a super light handle like ho wood. But, in general, they are lighter overall than yo handles. Wa handled knives have a long rat tail tang and are in no way weak or flimsy. Some are merely burnt on but most have some form of adhesive. Even those that are just burnt on are secure enough for use.

Like most folks I too came from many years of western handles and I adjusted really quickly to Japanese handles. Now whenever I grab a yo handled knife it just feels ass heavy. Again, I think they look nice, but I've just really grown fond of the blade-forward feel.

 

[Just a DK]

I hear ya on the full tang/rivets. Almost seems like a wa would fall right off. One of the reasons I like Kamon... Looks like the blade would break before the handle gives way.

I've never paid attention to balance before but that was a thought too... With a short little tang, it seems like it would be blade heavy.

I can see how a full on pinch grip almost negates the handle. I tend to choke up pretty far on the blade with just my palm resting on top of the handle for most things.

I cook at home. I'm fairly certain I can put silly putty in to hold the tang to the handle and I would never have a issue.

 

[BrokenChef]

Now I'm really curious to try one! I think I'd be upset if I paid $500 for a knife and the handle fell off. I've seen forging videos where they burn the handle on. It reminds me of my garden rake that keeps falling off the handle.

 

[jedy617]

I have never heard of a handle falling off on a nice knife but I guess there is a first for everything. Nowadays a ton of them are installed with epoxy, or some sort of sticky tape or glue. Even for burn on handles you have to really whack em off with a hammer

 

[BrokenChef]

I have never heard of a handle falling off on a nice knife but I guess there is a first for everything. Nowadays a ton of them are installed with epoxy, or some sort of sticky tape or glue. Even for burn on handles you have to really whack em off with a hammer

Gotcha, that would make sense. I guess I was thinking they just pulled right off. I saw a listing that came with 2 handles and I've seen several mentions of changing handles, so I figured you could just pull them right off.

Edit: I should add... You've never met someone before with my bad luck. If 1 in 10 million fell off, I'd get it!

 

[jedy617]

Yeah not at all, I have had really hard times getting burned in handles off actually. Here is relevant info:

 

[Barmoley]

To complecate things even more you don't have to have western handles with full tangs and rivets. You could have hidden tang western handles which are more similar to WA handles. Also some tangs are very thick, Catchieside for example and so can be heavy. There is an additional wrinkle too. In general WA handles have longer necks vs western handles without necks. So when you pinch grip with your middle finger against the choil more of a western handle is under your hand, in this case the balance point doesn't have to be as forward on the blade to feel blade forward.

 

[BrokenChef]

Yeah not at all, I have had really hard times getting burned in handles off actually. Here is relevant info:

Not as "magical" as disassembling a katana, but still pretty slick. This eases my mind knowing im not stuck with the handle that comes with!

 

[BrokenChef]

To complecate things even more you don't have to have western handles with full tangs and rivets. You could have hidden tang western handles which are more similar to WA handles. Also some tangs are very thick, Catchieside for example and so can be heavy. There is an additional wrinkle too. In general WA handles have longer necks vs western handles without necks. So when you pinch grip with your middle finger against the choil more of a western handle is under your hand, in this case the balance point doesn't have to be as forward on the blade to feel blade forward.

Yeah, this is a new mindset for me... I would have never purchased a knife without a full tang and rivets, or at least screws/bolts.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Now I'm really curious to try one! I think I'd be upset if I paid $500 for a knife and the handle fell off. I've seen forging videos where they burn the handle on. It reminds me of my garden rake that keeps falling off the handle.

Knives like you see at Knife Japan are a good economical way to get into a Japanese style knife and handle. If you go this route, keep in mind, many, if not most, have a plastic ferrule. They feel cheapy and you can feel the lip between wood and plastic but they are fully functional and can be a good place to start.

 

[timebard]

To complecate things even more you don't have to have western handles with full tangs and rivets. You could have hidden tang western handles which are more similar to WA handles. Also some tangs are very thick, Catchieside for example and so can be heavy. There is an additional wrinkle too. In general WA handles have longer necks vs western handles without necks. So when you pinch grip with your middle finger against the choil more of a western handle is under your hand, in this case the balance point doesn't have to be as forward on the blade to feel blade forward.

I've been meaning to write up some thoughts on hidden tang westerns but in brief, I think they're underrated and wish they were more common. They combine the lighter weight of a wa handle with the ergonomic shape of westerns in a way that gives the best of both worlds as well as an elegant aesthetic. Two nice ones from Herde (L) and Goldeband:

 

[ModRQC]

To me, a Western handle needs to be more carefully balanced to a blade and tang construction ie. bolster full tang rivets etc. bring balance backwards, which can be really nice left backwards or can be compensated forward and where it should be depends largely on the neck and pinch point, or even to a certain degree, integrated with a more traditional hammer or finger on spine grip. So yeah, there are different constructions to a Western handle, but a more dedicated equilibrium to seek as well, and the first thing I'll look at is the neck to handle construction, since there is also a lot of variation there, like no neck/no bolster, the shape of the bolster if there is a bolster, presence of a definitive neck connected to a western with no bolster, or one with a bolster, etc. In turns, with experience, it made most Yo handles unappealing to me. Absence of a neck I consider a drawback, and a sharp bolster to an absence of neck is plainly criminal - OR fully intended to a more hammer-like grip, like your fingers are not intended to seek a comfortable pinch position that also balances the whole knife right. Because worse than an absence of neck and a sharp bolster is that 99% of these will feel handle heavy in a pinch, let alone if they're comfortable there.

On the other hand, Wa handles are quite permissive. I've seldom seen any construct, even a sizeable piece of ebony to a rather midweight blade, that just throws the balance out of a nice pinch grip.

 

[brimmergj]

They combine the lighter weight of a wa handle with the ergonomic shape of westerns in a way that gives the best of both worlds as well as an elegant aesthetic.

Absolutely 100% agree.

 

[M1k3]

Knives like you see at Knife Japan are a good economical way to get into a Japanese style knife and handle. If you go this route, keep in mind, many, if not most, have a plastic ferrule. They feel cheapy and you can feel the lip between wood and plastic but they are fully functional and can be a good place to start.

Don't forget some, not all, come with a thick coat of lacquer on the blade and/or handle.

 

[Barmoley]

I've been meaning to write up some thoughts on hidden tang westerns but in brief, I think they're underrated and wish they were more common. They combine the lighter weight of a wa handle with the ergonomic shape of westerns in a way that gives the best of both worlds as well as an elegant aesthetic. Two nice ones from Herde (L) and Goldeband:

View attachment 290010

Agreed. In reality when we compare WA vs Yo the more miningfull comparison is neck vs no neck as that more than anything makes a difference between the two. Hidden tang western with a neck is really just a shaped WA. No neck can be very good, it is not a mistake and is not intended just for hammer grip at all. Western handles can be very comfortable in pinch grip and can be balanced very well. The construction is secondary in a sense that it can be anything, hidden tang not hidden tang. Same with some WA handles that can be very heavy or very light. All in all it is all personal preference, but WA handles or hidden tang western shaped handles are the easiest to replace. We also mostly talk about pinch grip, but that is not the only grip people use, so depending on that one might prefer different handles too.

 

[BrokenChef]

I've been meaning to write up some thoughts on hidden tang westerns but in brief, I think they're underrated and wish they were more common. They combine the lighter weight of a wa handle with the ergonomic shape of westerns in a way that gives the best of both worlds as well as an elegant aesthetic. Two nice ones from Herde (L) and Goldeband:

View attachment 290010

Is there a name for the one in the back? The handle ..It sort of looks like a cut off pistol grip...

 

[Nemo]

I think I'd be upset if I paid $500 for a knife and the handle fell off. I've seen forging videos where they burn the handle on. It reminds me of my garden rake that keeps falling off the handle.

Pretty easy fix

 

[timebard]

Is there a name for the one in the back? The handle ..It sort of looks like a cut off pistol grip...

Most common term for that shape is a 'coke bottle' style handle. Not all are quite that dramatically tapered in the middle though, it's a kinda loose term.

 

[BrokenChef]

Pretty easy fix

I found that video right after watching the one about taking them off, lol ... Was my very next thought.

 

[labor of love]

I like them both. At this point I don’t think I even have a preference in terms of balance, weight, shape or size. I’ve used skinny western handles and thicker ones that I’ve enjoyed. With wa handles I tend to appreciate thicker handles. Most stabilized wood wa handles I’m not into, definitely do not enjoy ebony wa handles.
One of the benefits of a softer wood wa handle like Ho is that overtime you can sand it down to match the size of the knife that is shrinking after many years of sharpening which is nicer than a full size yo handle on a 40mm tall gyuto haha.
The best handles IMO are the ones you don’t even think about while using the knife and the focus is completely on the cut.
A well shaped comfortable western handle is a treasure to own once you find one that suits you, because there’s a lot of variety out there and depending on the details they’re costly if we’re talking custom/hand made.

 

[Nemo]

Wa or Yo doesn’t matter too much. That is to say, "just use the knife". I have never had any trouble switching between handle shapes. Sure, there are differences (especially in the balance) but they are easy to become accustomed to.

If you use a proper pinch, you are mainly gripping the blade (near the heel) and the handle is mainly to stabilise the knife in your palm. A wide variety of shapes will work for this.