Wanatabe pro 165mm nakiri

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by charlesquik, Jan 11, 2019.

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  1. Jan 11, 2019 #1

    charlesquik

    charlesquik

    charlesquik

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    Hey guys,

    Any opinions on this one? Haven't seen much rent about these here.

    Is this a good knife? 258$ usd shipped.

    Or should I wait another sell by maksim and buy a mazaki kasumi nakiri ?
     
  2. Jan 11, 2019 #2

    Anton

    Anton

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    on your hands, it's the best opinion. Try it for yourself man

    IMO - if you can, try one and then the other, see the differences - appreciate them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  3. Jan 11, 2019 #3

    parbaked

    parbaked

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    It's great knife and I think Shinichi would tell you that the 165mm is a good size for home cooking ...
     
  4. Jan 11, 2019 #4

    charlesquik

    charlesquik

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    My jar of money only permit one ;)
     
  5. Jan 11, 2019 #5

    Cyrilix

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    I like small Chinese cleavers, ones that look more like a Nakiri than a tall Chinese cleaver, and they're all in the 200mm range or more so a 165mm wouldn't be acceptable to me. I think this depends more on what you think you'll be cutting.
     
  6. Jan 11, 2019 #6

    HRC_64

    HRC_64

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    The questions are more about weight and lenght and if you want the 180 or 165,
    either the Watanabe or the Mazaki is a 'good knife', your not looking for 'good' (=competent)
    you're really looking "good fit" and that requirest discussion about your needs/
    preference/tehcnique/experiences, etc

    hope this makes sense.
     
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  7. Jan 11, 2019 #7

    Cyrilix

    Cyrilix

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    And in case you were asking about whether or not Shinichi knows how to make a good Nakiri (good, as in competent), I'll have to say that he makes a very high performance knife. It was good enough for me to go back and ask him to make me a sujihiki.
     
  8. Jan 11, 2019 #8

    Anton

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    Wat
     
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  9. Jan 11, 2019 #9

    Mute-on

    Mute-on

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    Yes, it’s a good knife. The 180mm Pro Nakiri is one of the most widely recommended examples of a nakiri on KKF.

    You would probably find the 180 slightly more versatile than the 165 unless you have a very cramped work space and/or very small hands.
     
  10. Jan 11, 2019 #10

    Matus

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    I have not used either 180, nor 165 nakiri from Watanabe, but apart from the size between the two, there is also an obvious difference in weight (ca. 200 g vs. 180 g) and position of the center of mass. If you want a nakiri for fast chopping, than the smaller will be easier to use that way. I had a Toyama 180 (200g) and sold it for that reason - too heavy for my taste (and in particular skill). If this does not apply, then just get the 180 :)
     
  11. Jan 11, 2019 #11

    daddy yo yo

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    I went for the 180 Watanabe and a 165 Shig KU. I like both, but use the Wat more often.
     
  12. Jan 11, 2019 #12

    charlesquik

    charlesquik

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    Sadly there is no place where I can try some nakiri before buying here. So I really don't know if I need 165 vs 180mm. For reference I'm 5'11" and have relatively small hand.

    Id like to have at least some agility that why I like my takamura r2 210mm.

    I want the nakiri to feel strong in my hand and not flimsy like the takamura though.
     
  13. Jan 11, 2019 #13

    Xenif

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    It really comes down to how you cut. If you are a quick up down chopper, the smaller 165 has better balance and allows for faster action, the Shig excels at this and has phenomenal in hand feeling of balance, but to do this you want to put a micro bevel on you Shig asap.
    The Mazaki is much taller at 60mm and longer at 195mm, much more of a raised-bow tip. Both knives share a nice distal taper (sometimes nakiri lacks this) , Mazaki being the king of distal tapery. Doesn't chop as well as the Shig, but a better push cutter imo.

    If you have IG, you can check out my profile Xenif.k , I have videos of both these Nakiris (and some others) against different ingredients.

    Hope this helps !
     
  14. Jan 11, 2019 #14

    Jkts

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    165 mm is fine for home cooking. Great for cutting up carrots, potatoes, celery, peppers, onions, etc. I would use the 210 (or longer) gyuto for larger heads of cabbages or lettuce.

    Longer nakiris are nice if you are cutting large quantities of produce or if you have a general preference for larger knives.

    You have a 210 mm gyuto? If you like the size, then a 165 will seem natural to you. If the 210 seems small, go for a 180.

    One way of looking at a nakiri is that it is like the flat part of the gyuto with the front 40-50 mm missing. It is sharpened very flat on the face of the knife and it slices very smoothly.

    The Watanabe is a terrific knife at either size. You will love it.
     
  15. Jan 11, 2019 #15

    Paraffin

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    Before I bought a nakiri I thought I would prefer the 180mm size. I'm a tall guy, and thought the larger knife would be better in my hand. The first one I bought was a Kurosaki 180mm in R2 steel. I then bought a Yoshikazu Ikeda 165mm nakir in Blue #1 steel, with the idea of wanting to try one in carbon steel.

    As it turned out, I like the 165mm Ikeda better. It's actually a little heavier than the larger 180mm Kurosaki, due to a thicker but nicely convex grind and ebony handle (for good balance). The Kurosaki has a thinner blade, almost laser-ish. The heavier 165mm Ikeda is more nimble for swinging vertically from a pinch grip when chopping. I can get a nice steady rhythm going. The curved "point" at the front is great for draw-slicing, the other main way I use a nakiri.

    One other thing I like about the Ikeda nakiri is the 90 degree angle on the front edge, which I use for scraping product together on the board. The Kurosaki nakiri has a more angled front, a bit like the prow of a boat, so I have to hold it at more of an angle when using it as a scraper. I do like the Kurosaki for cutting larger things like a big cabbage, and my wife loves it for the lighter weight even though it's a fairly large blade. So it was still a good purchase.

    Anyway, I guess this points out that you can't go strictly by your body size to know what you'll like. And it can be a question of blade weight too, not just blade size.
     
  16. Jan 11, 2019 #16

    Xenif

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    Not just weight either, but rather weight distribution across the spine. I have two Nakiri with very similar dimensions, same balance point, Shigefusa and Hinoura, the Hinoura is actually almost 40g heavier (186 vs 226). The Shig would feel more civilized, balanced, agile. The Hinoura feels like it's on beast-mode, utmost willingness to fall through stuff.
    From my research I think the Watanabe would be more like a beast-mode Nakiri.
    Another aspect that I look at is how thick the neck is, if you pinch grip, this makes a huge huge difference in how comfortable it is. I prefer that thick Sanjo style neck.
     
  17. Jan 11, 2019 #17

    Matus

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    For what is worth my favorite Nakiri so far is Moritaka 180 AS. The reason to get it over the 165 is the added height. It weights only 175g and I really like the grind (narrow wide bevel). Plus I prefer the more pointy tip.

    If you a tall 165 nakiri, than have a look at Masakage Koishi. Really nicely made knife. The wide be el grind is pretty thin, it helps to give it a bit hamaguri grind.

    Today - If I did not have a custom 195 gyuto, I would get a nakiri from Bryan. Not only is his forging work fantastic, his grinds are great and he makes the handle in a way that it balances the blade the right way.
     
  18. Jan 11, 2019 #18

    Mute-on

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    The 165 Wat also comes standard with an octagonal Enju handle with horn hilt. Very nice.
    The 180 Wat comes with a basic handle with plastic hilt as standard. There is no octagonal Enju option.
    On this basis, I’d get the 165.
    I have many nakiri from 165 to 210. They are all different, but the differences in use between 165 and 180 examples often come down to factors other than length.
    You can’t really go wrong.
     
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