Wanting to switch to carbon from stainless steel

[arredos]

Good afternoon all! I’m dipping my toes into the carbon world. I have a stainless clad shun set that I’ve used for years. But they loose their edge quickly and they chip all the time. I’m only an amateur home cook, but cook nearly every day, so they see plenty of use.

My plan is to ultimately replace them with higher quality knives that hold an edge better. This led me to the world of carbon. I purchased a small 4.5 inch mini chef knife made from 52100 from element fe forge. I can already tell a difference in quality.

My real question is, how challenging is it to keep rust off carbon knives? I’ve had mine for a couple weeks and it looks good, but I clean it immediately after use and only have used it for smaller jobs. For those that switched from stainless steel to carbon is it difficult to keep up with?

 

[JPAU]

It’s not really hard at all if you’re a home cook and you’re diligent! Go forth with the utmost confidence and enjoy the benefits of high carbon steel!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Embrace the carbon.

I came from a heavy stainless-only background. So much fear mongering out there around carbon. I finally tried a carbon blade and from then on I was hooked! Now the overwhelming majority of my daily tools are iron clad/carbon core knives.

52100 is pretty stable and not too much trouble at all. Many mono steels are like that.

For iron clad/carbon core knives, it is often the cladding that is more reactive than the core steel. But, even then most cladding isn't that bad. I don't do the "must wipe it down before it touches the board" thing. As long as you don't leave them sitting for too long they do alright. By that I mean a few minutes is usually fine. If you cut something acidic, a quick rinse is a good idea.

There's a lot of budget-friendly carbon knives out there that you can consider if you want to experiment without dropping too much coin. The fit and finish will be a little rougher on some options but the blades are good.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

You can copy/paste this questionnaire to help get some inputs.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/new-knife-questionnaire.63548/

 

[M1k3]

Simpler carbon steels won't have better edge retention than the steel used in your Shun's, especially if they're VG-MAX.

They will sharpen up much easier and -can- be tougher though.

 

[panda]

when I first started off I told myself I would never get carbon. now it is all I use, I hate stainless.

 

[jedy617]

Max edge retention you are going to get from "lower" alloy carbon steels is blue super, and apex ultra. The shun def will have better edge retention than 52100...it's probably just ground thinner so the geometry is helping it feel sharper for longer.

Carbon is great, don't get me wrong almost everything I have is carbon, but if you want a nice knife with higher edge retention, a stainless like SG2, or something in magnacut (usually will have to be custom) would be nice for you. Of course there are also high alloyed carbons with great edge retention as well, but that's another rabbit hole.

To answer your question, 52100 isn't too bad. Just build up a good patina, rinse/wipe right away after cutting something acidic, and don't leave it wet for too long.

 

[WCV]

As @HumbleHomeCook noted, monosteel carbons tend to be pretty stable and easy to maintain. Iron cladding can be higher maintenance and a little finicky until you have a stable patina. Like a cast iron skillet, the more you use it, the better it gets.

 

[chiffonodd]

@arredos you're gonna wanna watch this video by @JBroida about one of the best ways to care for your carbon knives while you're actively using them.



As for when you're done with your knife, just wash it and dry it thoroughly before storing. If you're in an environment with a lot of humidity/near salt water, you may want to lightly oil them with tsubaki oil for storage, but I haven't found that to be necessary and I live on the coast.

 

[Nemo]

Yep, carbon won't have longer edge retention. Probably won't chip as much, though.

Although I've never had a Shun (and I'm aware of the reputation fir chipping), it's odd that your Shun chips so much. How do you sharpen it? What surface do you cut on? What are you cutting?

 

[Nemo]

To answer your question, no, I haven't found carbon difficult to maintain, especially if you let a patina form.

 

[arredos]

Embrace the carbon.

I came from a heavy stainless-only background. So much fear mongering out there around carbon. I finally tried a carbon blade and from then on I was hooked! Now the overwhelming majority of my daily tools are iron clad/carbon core knives.

52100 is pretty stable and not too much trouble at all. Many mono steels are like that.

For iron clad/carbon core knives, it is often the cladding that is more reactive than the core steel. But, even then most cladding isn't that bad. I don't do the "must wipe it down before it touches the board" thing. As long as you don't leave them sitting for too long they do alright. By that I mean a few minutes is usually fine. If you cut something acidic, a quick rinse is a good idea.

There's a lot of budget-friendly carbon knives out there that you can consider if you want to experiment without dropping too much coin. The fit and finish will be a little rougher on some options but the blades are good.

Good to know. I definitely don’t leave them sitting out for any length of time. I’ve had carbon steel pans for years know. So was hoping it was along those lines

 

[arredos]

Simpler carbon steels won't have better edge retention than the steel used in your Shun's, especially if they're VG-MAX.

They will sharpen up much easier and -can- be tougher though.

Hrmm. I’ll keep that in mind. Mine are VG10. From what I understand VG-max is a bit of a step up. Not sure why mine chip so much. I don’t cut on anything but a wooden or plastic board. But I did catch my wife cutting on a ceramic plate once.l!! We had a talk about that. It hasn’t happened since

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Alternatively. You can look at high alloy steel. Not really reactive and can hold an edge forever. I really like my cruwear or you can go crazy and look at 10v that I recently had the pleasure of using.

Edit. Oh yea, magnacut is pretty popular as well.

Edit 2: high alloy also has pretty decent toughness (resistant to chipping) but you also need to consider the angle of sharpening which has a greater degree of impact on chipping than the steel.

 

[arredos]

Max edge retention you are going to get from "lower" alloy carbon steels is blue super, and apex ultra. The shun def will have better edge retention than 52100...it's probably just ground thinner so the geometry is helping it feel sharper for longer.

Carbon is great, don't get me wrong almost everything I have is carbon, but if you want a nice knife with higher edge retention, a stainless like SG2, or something in magnacut (usually will have to be custom) would be nice for you. Of course there are also high alloyed carbons with great edge retention as well, but that's another rabbit hole.

To answer your question, 52100 isn't too bad. Just build up a good patina, rinse/wipe right away after cutting something acidic, and don't leave it wet for too long.

Thats great to hear. I like the idea of custom knives. And most of the makers I’ve seen work with high carbon steels. I haven’t come across many making stainless knives, thought I’m sure they are out there.

The one I have is 52100 monosteel. I’ve only had it a couple weeks, but the edge has been great. It’s ground to 12 degrees (24 inclusive) so maybe that’s it (the shun’s are around 16).

I’ve noticed the shuns chip a ton, and I do take good care of them. I was very interested in apex ultra and magnacut (seems everyone I’m talking about these right now). But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.

 

[mengwong]

But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.

Ah, we have just the thing!

Recently I've noticed a few members chatting about Knife Japan— @HumbleHomeCook, et al. Admittedly, I've not heard of them, and obviously never purchased anything from KJ.

Finally cruised around the KJ website, first impressions were lots of lefty single-bevel options, and reasonably priced, utilitarian, knives from large number of makers I'm unfamiliar with.

Knifejapan.com

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Just citing my reference here about edge retention vs metal type




This is by big brown bear who has done a bunch of work for Dr Larrin Thomas.

 

[jedy617]

Thats great to hear. I like the idea of custom knives. And most of the makers I’ve seen work with high carbon steels. I haven’t come across many making stainless knives, thought I’m sure they are out there.

The one I have is 52100 monosteel. I’ve only had it a couple weeks, but the edge has been great. It’s ground to 12 degrees (24 inclusive) so maybe that’s it (the shun’s are around 16).

I’ve noticed the shuns chip a ton, and I do take good care of them. I was very interested in apex ultra and magnacut (seems everyone I’m talking about these right now). But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.

Makers on here that work with magnacut: miscard cutlery, hsc knives, troopah knives, blank blades...who else am I forgetting? Newham makes a mean one, I am going to be selling mine soon since I have a custom on the way eventually.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

+1 for HSC.

 

[KasumiJLA]

Contact this guy @MSicardCutlery for a custom with Magnacut. I heard somewhere he can make knives apparently

 

[arredos]

As @HumbleHomeCook noted, monosteel carbons tend to be pretty stable and easy to maintain. Iron cladding can be higher maintenance and a little finicky until you have a stable patina. Like a cast iron skillet, the more you use it, the better it gets.

That’s good to hear! I basically use carbon steel and cast iron pans exclusively these days.

 

[arredos]

@arredos you're gonna wanna watch this video by @JBroida about one of the best ways to care for your carbon knives while you're actively using them.



As for when you're done with your knife, just wash it and dry it thoroughly before storing. If you're in an environment with a lot of humidity/near salt water, you may want to lightly oil them with tsubaki oil for storage, but I haven't found that to be necessary and I live on the coast.

Awesome thank you!

 

[mengwong]

Even if rust does happen, it’s easily dealt with—

I took a scotchbrite pad and removed it!

"Fear no steel."

- Shawn Houston aka @Deadboxhero

 

[arredos]

Yep, carbon won't have longer edge retention. Probably won't chip as much, though.

Although I've never had a Shun (and I'm aware of the reputation fir chipping), it's odd that your Shun chips so much. How do you sharpen it? What surface do you cut on? What are you cutting?

A good mix of protein and veg. I’m American and like to bbq. So lots of protein! I use only wood and plastic cutting boards. My sharpening skills are definitely not at expert level yet. So that could be part of the problem. I just got some angle guides from wedgek which have upped my game considerably. Truth be told, the knife are probably fine, I just want better ones!

 

[arredos]

when I first started off I told myself I would never get carbon. now it is all I use, I hate stainless.

Finger’s crossed I’m the same!

 

[arredos]

Makers on here that work with magnacut: miscard cutlery, hsc knives, troopah knives, blank blades...who else am I forgetting? Newham makes a mean one, I am going to be selling mine soon since I have a custom on the way eventually.

Thanks!

 

[arredos]

Contact this guy @MSicardCutlery for a custom with Magnacut. I heard somewhere he can make knives apparently

Haha I may have seen his name come up once or twice on the site!

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

I’ve noticed the shuns chip a ton, and I do take good care of them. I was very interested in apex ultra and magnacut (seems everyone I’m talking about these right now). But wanted to start out with something a little less expensive to start.

So I don’t know how true it is but ive read that shuns are notorious for chipping either because they grind them wayyy to thin or they have bad heat treatments causing them to be brittle. But I would not write off the steel due to a bad experiance with shun.

edit: withdrawn.

 

[panda]

So I don’t know how true it is but ive read that shuns are notorious for chipping either because they grind them wayyy to thin or they have bad heat treatments causing them to be brittle. But I would not write off the steel due to a bad experiance with shun.

other vg10 knives are also prone to chipping, I just chalk it up as being a terrible steel.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Good to know. I definitely don’t leave them sitting out for any length of time. I’ve had carbon steel pans for years know. So was hoping it was along those lines

Very much the same in spirit.

I believe I read in your intro about wanting to improve your sharpening. If so, I would caution to not jump into custom knives for a while. I would recommend a simpler knife in a simpler steel.

@mengwong mentioned Knife Japan. A great starting place.

https://knifejapan.com/

VG10 is chippy.