Watanabe 180mm Nakiri vs Toyama 210mm

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blokey

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After selling my Wakui nakiri I started to miss have a handy little cleaver, and getting a new one is kind hard since the new price for them is too high imo. So I'm considering getting Watoyama, both the 180mm pro KU and 210mm Toyama is in stock, anyone have experience with both? How do they compare?
 

4wa1l

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I would probably agree with @nakiriknaifuwaifu. I haven't had the 210 mm Toyama but have/had 180 mm and 195 mm Watanabes. When you say a "handy little cleaver" that to me points to something a little more nimble like the 180 mm. The 210 mm is listed at 275 g which is a similar weight to my chonky 195 mm and it does have a noticably different feel to a standard 165-180mm nakiri. The 180 mm Wat is also a pretty substantial nakiri and I think they're usually around 60 mm tall and ~200 g.

My 195 mm is a nice knife but since getting a true 220 mm cleaver I reach for it a lot less as I feel like there's quite a lot of overlap between the two.

Hopefully that helps a bit and someone who has had both can add their thoughts.
 

M1k3

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240mm long Nakiri or go home sober.
PXL_20220802_221354833.MP.jpg
 

bradmacmt

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For me as a vegan I find the extra height of the 180mm Toyama to be a real plus. It's the reason I sold my 165 mm Anryu AS (made by the man himself) and went to the longer, taller Toyama. I'm glad I did. The Toyama will not be going anywhere.

I can't speak to the 210 vs. 180 other than to say I really can't fathom needing more than 180mm x 60mm as a home cook.
 

nickw_

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Is it possible to still order a 180mm Toyama, or buy one somewhere? I’ve only seen it at Japanese Natural Stones in Denmark, but they are sold out.

 
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Choppin

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I had a 180 Toyama and recently got a 210. Quite different knives, I would say they are more different than 180 vs 210 gyutos in general.

The 180 is a great size for home cooking. Hefty but well balanced and plenty length. Never really though I needed more. Fantastic all-around nakiri. The 210 is a different beast - starts getting into cleaver territory. Imagine a 210 gyuto, but 65mm tall from heel to tip. Super fun to use.

So it kinda depends on what you want. I use the 210 when I'm doing a lot of veggies (soup) or bulk prepping. It's my "big knife" to get sh*t done fast. The 180 would be more appropriate for moderate volume I guess.

Never tried a 180 Wat - might have a different grind due to the KU finish, but I'm not sure.
 

bradmacmt

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Is it possible to still order a 180mm Toyama, or buy one somewhere? I’ve only seen it at Japanese Natural Stones in Denmark, but they are sold out.


Nick JNS restocks their "mainstay" Toyama's fairly quickly. I'd put the 240 and 210 Gyuoto's and the 180 and 210 Nakiri's in that category - my guess is you won't have to wait more than 1-2 mo's.
 

M1k3

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nickw_

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Nick JNS restocks their "mainstay" Toyama's fairly quickly. I'd put the 240 and 210 Gyuoto's and the 180 and 210 Nakiri's in that category - my guess is you won't have to wait more than 1-2 mo's.
Thanks. I’ll keep an eye out.

I requested a custom Watanabe honyaki nakiri, but Shinichi said they are not taking Honyaki orders. I’ve seen this mentioned before, but at other times I’ve seen him produce some, perhaps he does so intermittently? My follow up was to ask for a kasumi finish instead of the kurouchi. If he declines that, I’ll probably buy a Toyama.
 
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Thanks. I’ll keep an eye out.

I requested a custom Watanabe honyaki nakiri, but Shinichi said they are not taking Honyaki orders. I’ve seen this mentioned before, but at other times I’ve seen him produce some, perhaps he does so intermittently? My follow up was to as for a kasumi finish instead of the kurouchi. If he declines that, I’ll probably pick up a Toyama.

Like many others, I'm growing increasingly suspicious that Shinichi doesn't make his kitchen knives and they are Toyama's. I'd like to be wrong about that but...
 

nickw_

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Like many others, I'm growing increasingly suspicious that Shinichi doesn't make his kitchen knives and they are Toyama's. I'd like to be wrong about that but...
While it doesn’t sound like you are formally accusing him, that is a very big accusation.
 
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Ok. Just new to me then.

Yeah. It's one of the seemingly many murky mysteries of the Japanese knife world. You can search and find evidence on both sides but I have to admit, the evidence for Shinichi's side is weaker. I've seen videos and pictures of a lot smiths actually forging knives but I haven't seen them for Shinichi. I've seen equipment, a shop, and staged pics but nothing of him directly and actively forging, grinding or sharpening.

Trust me when I tell you, that I want to believe Shinichi is making them as I hate the idea of that mislead trust but I'm growing increasingly skeptical.
 

Justinv

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I requested a custom Watanabe honyaki nakiri, but Shinichi said they are not taking Honyaki orders. I’ve seen this mentioned before, but at other times I’ve seen him produce some, perhaps he does so intermittently? My follow up was to ask for a kasumi finish instead of the kurouchi. If he declines that, I’ll probably buy a Toyama.

I asked him about a kasumi or nashiji finish nakiri a few months ago and he said he only sells kurouchi ones. I don’t like KU, but bought one anyway. I may buy a toyama. Others suggested sandpaper and a 12-pack.
 

nickw_

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Yeah. It's one of the seemingly many murky mysteries of the Japanese knife world. You can search and find evidence on both sides but I have to admit, the evidence for Shinichi's side is weaker. I've seen videos and pictures of a lot smiths actually forging knives but I haven't seen them for Shinichi. I've seen equipment, a shop, and staged pics but nothing of him directly and actively forging, grinding or sharpening.

Trust me when I tell you, that I want to believe Shinichi is making them as I hate the idea of that mislead trust but I'm growing increasingly skeptical.
Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I asked him about a kasumi or nashiji finish nakiri a few months ago and he said he only sells kurouchi ones. I don’t like KU, but bought one anyway. I may buy a toyama. Others suggested sandpaper and a 12-pack.
That’s an option. But I like the idea of buying it already done from the blacksmith, from a collectibility point of view.

If you want, I can keep you (and the thread) updated with his response.

As 4aw1l shares, they both seem like winners. Regardless of who makes them.
 
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After selling my Wakui nakiri I started to miss have a handy little cleaver, and getting a new one is kind hard since the new price for them is too high imo. So I'm considering getting Watoyama, both the 180mm pro KU and 210mm Toyama is in stock, anyone have experience with both? How do they compare?
A biased opinion, A Denka Nakiri or Watanabe Nakiri? I have them both, I love them both.
 

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