Water vs oil quenched performance

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Rideon66

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OK so certain steel types are obviously better for different quenching. My questions have to do with overall performance differences on the final product.

Is there a noticeable difference in the hardness of the steel?

Is it more difficult to sharpen?

Does it hold a better edge longer?

Looking for real world experience and thoughts. Not the science. I read some of that and get the basic idea of what should happen. I am wondering if that is really noticeable in the real use comparison.
 
Steel with low hardenability sure could benefit a bit from a fast water quench, I had Manaka's water quenched blue #1 and it feels pretty hard, but a feel is a feel, I can't say how it holds up against others.
 
TB_London said:
The type of steel and the hardness will have much more of an impact that the quenchant- as long as the quenchant is suitably fast enough for the steel.
Click to expand...
I get that. I am wondering if say for the same steel type does it make a noticeable difference in actual use? Sharpening, edge retention and and how sharp you can get the edge. Now i get the steel hardness plays a factor in some of this and water quenching done right can effect the grain structure and thus give a higher better HRC level and edge retention. Does this hold true in actual real world use.
 
Rideon66 said:
I get that. I am wondering if say for the same steel type does it make a noticeable difference in actual use? Sharpening, edge retention and and how sharp you can get the edge. Now i get the steel hardness plays a factor in some of this and water quenching done right can effect the grain structure and thus give a higher better HRC level and edge retention. Does this hold true in actual real world use.
Click to expand...
It depends on what the steel is in the first place. Oil quenching a steel that will air harden, or plate quench, may make no difference at all. Some air hardening steels are somewhat borderline (154CM for instance), and oil quenching them can garner an addition point or two of hardness and boost corrosion resistance (not sure how much on that one though)

As far as low alloy steels are concerned, I'm inclined to say that provided the two steels are of the same grade/lot, have reached the same hardness, from the same starting structure, and have the same hardness after tempering, there will be no functional difference between one oil quenched, or one water quenched and that subjective experience is a terribly inconsistent benchmark for trying to establish any difference...

The only legitimate difference I know of is that water quenching tends to produce more active hamons than oil quenching, but carries about a 20%-25% failure rate during the quench, whereas oil carries next to none. That probably accounts for there being some mystique around water quenched blades
 
What about ice harden blades? Is it marketing or real?
 
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jedy617 said:
I'm guessing that's referring to a cryo treatment which is very real, but not as sexy sounding as ice hardening?
Click to expand...
I don't know, "nitrogen cryo treatment" sounds way cooler to me than "ice hardened".
 
So wait.... I don't need to be water quenching my 10v blades? 😭
 
Ok.

Me making a serious response. This will be mostly just going off of things i've seen larrin thomas mention.

About quenching speed. Hardenability was mentioned, which really is the biggest factor on whether you want to water quench or not. Most steels have enough hardenability to do fine in a fast quench oil, though. If i recall even though in theory its not much slower than water, the absolute lowest hardenability steels may benefit a little by going with water. Especially if the steel is on the thicker side.

Most low alloy steels won't see any real benefit at all from it, and like it was mentioned. It increases the risk of cracking.

One interesting thing, I've seen mentioned is quench speed, and retained austenite. I wish i could find the post that mentions this, but the last time i looked. I couldn't but I've seen it mentioned that a faster quench can reduce retained austenite potentially. This will be with higher alloy steels. Take that with a grain of salt though because I can't recall the source.

Speaking of retained austenite. Since cryo was mentioned. Thats where that comes into play. Basically what cryo is doing. Is extending the quench to below room temperature. So normally to harden. You quickly cool the blade to room temperature, from the austenizing temperature. Martensite is the phase of steel we want for a knife. Martensite finish is the temp where we have theoretically reached a 100% martensitic microstructure, if everything went as planned (not including carbides).

So some steels need to go below room temp to reach martensite finish. How low, depends on the austenitizing temperature, and the composition of the steel. Sometimes you can just stick the blade in the freezer, or use a dry ice slurry, some may need liquid nitrogen (though liquid nitrogen wouldnt hurt to use on any steel).

So, when doing cryo. We are getting rid of a percentage of the remaining austenite that was present in the blade at room temperature. Which leads to a harder blade. Which can lead to better performance (depending what you are doing), and can certainly make sharpening more pleasant (not having as much retained austenite).
 
Thats just me trying to put a very simplified answer to that, while being pretty tired because its 3am here.
 
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