Western makers vs. established japanese smiths

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Lazyboy said:
Fairies have tails? I've been misinformed all this time. I thought they had wings. As for testing Reals, what's Brazilian currency got to do with supernovae?
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The tails help them navigate.

There is big money in getting theory. Brazil is part of the illuminate.
 
Vils said:
Nice periodic tabletter with the origin of the elements made by Jenifer A Johnson
solar-system-periodic_zpst4m2uzms.jpg
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humans probably a fart of a fart
we are so little
 
This thread took a weird turn. i was enjoying all the east vs. west banter and then it turned into solar farts and unicorn breast milk, what gives?
 
Thanks Nemo! ;)

On topic: awaiting my first western maker knife the next week, a Raquin workhorse. Will be very intersting to see how it compares to my jknives!
 
meanwhile lets go back to western knives vs german knives vs japanese knives
in a couple of years we are going to have Korea vietnam pakistan and china also in the equation
 
What about aussies? They aint from west, but Make one of The best knives out There.
 
milkbaby said:
The western makers OP is asking about tend to make sole authorship knives with very high fit and finish. Basically one person does every job needed to make the knife from forging, grinding, to making the handles. Many of the Japanese bladesmiths (not all) are using prelaminated san mai whereas many of the western makers are forging their own, for example Joe/Halcyon Forge has been laminating wrought iron to carbon steel as seen in the pic above. You can't buy that prelaminated from Hitachi, it has to be made.

I believe most of the Japanese bladesmiths mentioned work in a small workshop setting, where there are multiple people working on the knives. For example, the bladesmith may forge out the knives but there may be a separate worker that cleans up the profile, a sharpener that grinds the blade, and yet another person who installs the handles. Or even multiple people doing these jobs. The handles are often bought from an outside handle factory and merely installed.
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Not completely true. Halcyon uses prelaminated bar stock, maybe not exclusively but certainly a large proportion of his output, including Hitachi AS although its sourcing maybe circuitous.
 
His AS is pre laminated, most of his stuff he laminates himself.
 
playero said:
meanwhile lets go back to western knives vs german knives vs japanese knives
in a couple of years we are going to have Korea vietnam pakistan and china also in the equation
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If it hasn't happened by now, I doubt it will in the near future.
 
panda said:
who gonna buy the first african knife? made from rhino dung and ivory scales.
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They will be diamond dusted only to have them confiscated by customs for fear of too many diamonds flooding the market causing the poor masses to realize how worthless their jewelry really is.
 
osakajoe said:
I would say a master grinder with an apprentice can at least fully grind 500 mid to high level knives a month.
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RDalman said:
500 mid to high level knives per month come to about three per hour with a 40 hour week.
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I could probably grind 500 knives a month, and I could forge as many, too, but not in the same month! Obviously one always aspires to perfection, in the knowledge that it is unattainable, but in essence it's not rocket science. You just need the right tools and a modicum of horse sense.
But, being a solo maker, I am doing the whole process by myself, and I am therefore not doing 500 of any one thing in a month. I would be doing;

In the forge;
Billet prep
Forging
Clipping
Straightening
HT

At the grinding station;
Profiling
Grinding
Glazing
Buffing
Maybe etching or other surface treatments.

At the bench;
Handle block prep
Handle fitting
Handle shaping
Handle finishing

And finally;
Sharpening
General QC/snagging

So, divide your 500 knives a month by all those tasks (ignoring the fact that they all take widely disparate amounts of time), and you have a figure that comes closer to a common solo Western maker's target of a knife a day. I know some might make more and some make many fewer, according to their capacity and of course what it is they are making.

Another factor I touched on before is having a market for your product. A long established knife making concern in any country will have built up a customer base, retail or wholesale, that makes 500 plus knives a month a viable target. If I got a bunch of my buddies together and we pumped out 500 knives a month, where is our market going to spring from, even (or especially??) if our knives were retailing at a notional "mid-range" Japanese knife price point of, say, £200?

And to briefly touch upon pricing, it is a tricky subject because I know that, for instance, my overheads are probably going to be a good deal lower than those of a knifemaker in the US, and then there is the question of special materials and so on, so it makes it hard to compare. But, the higher end Japanese knives are not cheap, so I think, in the end, we are comparing things that are more alike than they at first appear?

Just my rambling thoughts on this dreary Sunday evening.
 
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Chef Doom said:
If it hasn't happened by now, I doubt it will in the near future.
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you already have pakistan and afg, thru etsy, they may say it's from Canada but when you receive the package it says from the country. the chinese you have them adverstizing in FB and others there are some note here where it is mentioned that product does not say made in china or the metal is from japan etc.
 
If Chinese makers are slowly creeping into mid-high end folders marker I do not see why would not they explore similar markets aka kitchen knifes in near future. It’s not like they don’t know how to forge or grind or market or work many hours or make money....
 
playero said:
you already have pakistan and afg, thru etsy, they may say it's from Canada but when you receive the package it says from the country. the chinese you have them adverstizing in FB and others there are some note here where it is mentioned that product does not say made in china or the metal is from japan etc.
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I can't think of any reasonable people that actually seek out and use these knives with the exception of a wallet friendly Chinese cleaver which I will always recommend.
 
Chef Doom said:
I can't think of any reasonable people that actually seek out and use these knives with the exception of a wallet friendly Chinese cleaver which I will always recommend.
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Give it time.
 
Chef Doom said:
The world is flat. There are no meteorite remains. Wake up. Join the revolution. Fight the power. Don't become food for the Anunaki.

Heard it on Alex Jones.
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Check HHH post on knife from meteorite metal. Their work is outstanding and when finished I don’t think there will be any equal
 
For me the Japanese stuff is getting boring. Wayyyyy to much automation and prelaminated production line stuff. 2019 will be turn to a few custom makers that are forge welding knives, no stock removal knives.
 
Ruso said:
If Chinese makers are slowly creeping into mid-high end folders marker I do not see why would not they explore similar markets aka kitchen knifes in near future. It’s not like they don’t know how to forge or grind or market or work many hours or make money....
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The Chinese makers will get there if there is a substantial home market for it. I would imagine there are Chinese smiths doing similar things in certain local circles that probably are simply not known to us. As the market expands and people have more discretionary income, this also allows all of these hobbies to start forming.
 
I used to be a J-Knife ONLY fan, but TBH I’m also a western makers fan now.
I have tried 20+ different Brand J-knives over the past 3 years some are Excellent, some were just okay quality.

I’ve only tried 2 western makers knives so far, but both made it into my top 3 gyuto of all time list. They are also very serious at making top quality knives. Highly recommend for those who only wanted to try J-knives in the past liked me to go ahead exploring the western makers knives world that are highly recommended on this forum, it won’t go wrong.
 
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