What’s up with blue 1smell

[fortheloveofmoar]

So I’m still fairly new into the knife using (but let’s be honest, it’s hoarding)

I’ve noticed that the blue 1 steels tend to smell very strongly. I know they are reactive and it’s probably the metal composition, but is there anything to do to tame it?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Iron or stainless clad?

Often it is the cladding causing the smell.

Some use usually helps neutralize it.

 

[mockit]

Baking / washing soda rinse and then oil after use. This is the way .

 

[Bear]

I have a mono AS that really stinks after its been cleaned, it goes away after a patina forms.

 

[reisen]

I thought it was the smell of iron cladding.
And it smells worse when rinsing under hot water.

 

[Corradobrit1]

My Morihei TF W#1 with iron cladding has a very slight aroma if I put my nose up to it, but I think that is the kurouchi skin that is emitting the odour and not the core steel.

 

[240_Gyutos_Only]

I have a mono AS that really stinks after its been cleaned, it goes away after a patina forms.

Can you share which knife this is? I have only ever seen clad AS, I thought it was too hard and brittle to make a monosteel.

 

[M1k3]

Can you share which knife this is? I have only ever seen clad AS, I thought it was too hard and brittle to make a monosteel.

Knives can be made mono with even Rex121 at 70+ HRC.

Cladding makes straightening and thinning easier though.

 

[240_Gyutos_Only]

Knives can be made mono with even Rex121 at 70+ HRC.

Cladding makes straightening and thinning easier though.

Right, maybe a poor choice of words on my part. Obviously any steel can technically be shaped into a monosteel knife, but this carries pros and cons depending on the steel/hardness. All Japanese knives I have seen made of very hard powdered steels, AS etc. are cladded, probably for the reasons you mentioned but also I think it adds toughness to the overall blade to prevent breaking (similar to the effect of honyaki). My question was more out of curiosity to see an example of monosteel Aogami Super as I haven't heard of one before, and not to imply they don't exist or can't be made theoretically).

 

[jedy617]

Right, maybe a poor choice of words on my part. Obviously any steel can technically be shaped into a monosteel knife, but this carries pros and cons depending on the steel/hardness. All Japanese knives I have seen made of very hard powdered steels, AS etc. are cladded, probably for the reasons you mentioned but also I think it adds toughness to the overall blade to prevent breaking (similar to the effect of honyaki). My question was more out of curiosity to see an example of monosteel Aogami Super as I haven't heard of one before, and not to imply they don't exist or can't be made theoretically).

I have a monosteel aogami super, they definitely exist (for sale here actually: WTS - Jedys sells some gyutos (price drops)), and I'm having a honyaki made with it. The cladding doesn't add any toughness. What the cladding allows for is less core steel usage which makes it cheaper for the knife maker, makes it a lot easier to fix bends because of soft cladding (but also bends easier), and it makes thinning easier because you are sharpening away at unhardened (or less hardened) mild/soft steel or iron. Another big reason, a lot easier and cheaper to grind stainless cladding vs fully hardened steel for the knifemaker

 

[reisen]

an example of monosteel Aogami Super

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/matsuohamono/0219/

 

[Bear]

Can you share which knife this is? I have only ever seen clad AS, I thought it was too hard and brittle to make a monosteel.

 

[jedy617]

Also ZDP189 which is usually ran harder and just as brittle if not more so than AS, "honyaki" here just means monosteel: Yoshida Hamono - ZDP-189 Honyaki - 240mm Gyuto - Custom Wooded Western Handle - Mirror Polished

There are steels way harder and more brittle out there than AS, and they are usually uncladded. Spyderco makes maxamet which is usually 68 hrc+ extremely brittle, I have S125V at 65+ hrc, both of those make AS look like a joke.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Iron or stainless clad?

Often it is the cladding causing the smell.

Some use usually helps neutralize it.

It would seem I have too many knives or I am not cooking enough

I have the y. Tanaka x kyuzo Kurouchi clad in soft iron and this Y. Tanak

 

[M1k3]

Knives can be made mono with even Rex121 at 70+ HRC.

Cladding makes straightening and thinning easier though.

And as @jedy617 said, makes grinding the knife easier.

 

[Qapla']

Deleted.

 

[timebard]

I've noticed that with one of the Y Tanaka blue 1s I've had (but not the other blue 1 or blue 2 from him, nor any other blue 1 knife I've owned) and more strongly from Birgersson taco / mystery silver steel. In the latter case use and patina doesn't seem to calm it down much. Both offenders are KU finishes so I'm now wondering if it's a residue from some kind of bluing agent...

 

[240_Gyutos_Only]

I have a monosteel aogami super, they definitely exist (for sale here actually: WTS - Jedys sells some gyutos (price drops)), and I'm having a honyaki made with it. The cladding doesn't add any toughness. What the cladding allows for is less core steel usage which makes it cheaper for the knife maker, makes it a lot easier to fix bends because of soft cladding (but also bends easier), and it makes thinning easier because you are sharpening away at unhardened (or less hardened) mild/soft steel or iron. Another big reason, a lot easier and cheaper to grind stainless cladding vs fully hardened steel for the knifemaker

The cladding most certainly adds toughness in almost all cases, as it is almost always softer and tougher. Laminated steel is a composite material and will behave as such. If a low toughness steel is laminated in a high toughness steel, the blade as a whole will behave as a steel with a toughness somewhere in the middle, albeit with more complicated nonisotropic properties. This is one of the main ideas behind warikomi, laminated knives such as the Fallkniven A1 etc.

 

[jedy617]

Bro......

The cladding doesn't touch the edge. It's just the core steel. Toughness is how well the knife can resist chipping. How would something that isn't on the edge contribute to that?

I'm sorry and I don't mean to be mean but that's the craziest thing I've heard on this forum.

Are you watching Cold steel videos on San mai? Having a softer/more flexible spine is different than toughness...

 

[jedy617]

Paging @Larrin can you please tell the guy above that the cladding material is not going to affect toughness in a gyuto?

 

[M1k3]

The cladding most certainly adds toughness in almost all cases, as it is almost always softer and tougher. Laminated steel is a composite material and will behave as such. If a low toughness steel is laminated in a high toughness steel, the blade as a whole will behave as a steel with a toughness somewhere in the middle, albeit with more complicated nonisotropic properties. This is one of the main ideas behind warikomi, laminated knives such as the Fallkniven A1 etc.

Do you mean less likely to snap from a bend?

Or that the cutting edge will be tougher?

Because the first is true about clad knives. The second is absolutely false.

 

[blokey]

Well laminated blade is certainly easier to correct a bend

 

[jedy617]

And if you mean the first one, that is not "toughness" in the traditional sense of the word in terms of knife steel.

But I don't think that's what he's referring to, he said if a more fragile steel is laminated with a softer steel the whole knife will be tougher which is just nonsense

 

[240_Gyutos_Only]

Do you mean less likely to snap from a bend?

Or that the cutting edge will be tougher?

Because the first is true about clad knives. The second is absolutely false.

Yes, when I said "the blade as a whole" in my prior post I was talking about the entire knife blade, as a whole. I never used the word "edge".

Some direct quotes from my 2 prior posts:

"I think it adds toughness to the overall blade to prevent breaking (similar to the effect of honyaki)"

"the blade as a whole will behave as a steel with a toughness somewhere in the middle"

Edit: Just want to add that this entire discussion is not the topic of this thread, or a subject that I am particularly interested in debating here. My original post in this thread was a simple and short request asking for a guy to show his knife, which he did and so as far as I am concerned no need to hijack this thread further.

On the original topic, I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. In my experience the smell tends to diminish to an extent as the knife develops a patina over time.

 

[jedy617]

But it's not the blade as a whole, because the edge is just as brittle no matter what you clad to it.

And toughness, in terms of steel is the resistance to chipping.

Ductility is more what I would call the knife that has been cladded with San Mai, it's more malleable. Regardless...for a kitchen knife, besides thinning and being able to fix a warped blade, having monosteel vs San Mai makes little to no difference. And that's coming from someone who had at least half a dozen honyaki and monosteels, and dozens of San Mai

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Thank you all for the replies ofyall are interested I agree I think it is the cladding? When I compare it to my other y. Tanaka blue one without cladding there is hardly any smell.

Interestingly when I put some mustard on the kisumu finish 1. It started to strip away that dark black. And also seems to remove that odor.

 

[refcast]

The kurouchi looks like one of those chemical kurouchi, like the gun blue ones. Even a Watanabe KU (kurouchi) I had, smelled, as well as a knife I used gun blue on, which was a selenium based gun blue. Anyhow, it's probably the chemical kurouchi, I think if you can remove it, you will remove the smell. Up to you. Forged KU doesn't smell as much at all to me, usually

 

[Pie]

All my iron clad knives get a bit stinky with first couple uses, until a patina forms.

Ngl there’s a lot of stinky knives because patina = polish time.

 

[tostadas]

Are you sure its the steel and not the handle? Some woods can be extra pungent. For example, rosewoods, cedar, and camphor.

 

[Heckel7302]

@fortheloveofmoar It doesn't look like you've really described the smell. What does it smell like?