What are the differences between these knives? B2 240mm knives

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by aszma, Aug 23, 2019.

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  1. Aug 23, 2019 #1

    aszma

    aszma

    aszma

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    Just wanted to ask some questions as the more i dive down this rabbit hole of kitchen knives and the more i learn the more questions and confusion i end up having. So my main question is what exactly is the difference between all of these knives. Before you guys give me the obvious answers i already know the difference and what I mean by that is I understand that their is a lot that goes into making a knife and a lot of different aspects to a great knife such as F&F, heat treatment, blade profile, aesthetics, ect and some people are better at doing those things than other so of course you could argue some blades are better than others based on many dif factors. I also know from my time in the kitchen using a variety of knives that price isnt always a good reflection of quality my JKI stainless gyuto i bought for 120 dollars out performed knives ive used that have costed 60-70 dollars more. Below ive linked several knives all B2 240mm gyutos to what I want to know really is i guess how much of a difference in quality of knives am i getting as i jump up my list and what specific changes between the knives warrent an increase or decrease in price. I actually own one of these knives the sakura and IMO its a great performer definitely the heaviest knife ive used but it takes a wicked edge and stays sharp which is exactly what anyone is looking for in a knife but im sure every knife on this list could also do that. So how much of a difference would it have been if i choose to get a watanabe which is only 40 dollars more or a anryu which is only half the price or even a toyama which is almost 200 dollars more or is their even actually any difference. I know my question is probably asked a bunch but id really love to get some people who know way more than me about knives opinions on this.

    https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/toyama-noborikoi-stainless-clad-blue-gyuto-240mm/

    https://www.**************.com/kofubl2gy24.html

    https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/watanabe-knives/products/watanabe-stainless-clad-gyuto-240mm

    http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-takayuki-syousin-sakura-wa-gyuto-240mm/

    https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/anryu-knives/products/katsushige-anryu-tsuchime-gyuto-240mm

    http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...uto-240mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/

    https://www.**************.com/gibl2gy24.html

    EDIT: why is the URL for carbon knife co blurred ***
     
  2. Aug 23, 2019 #2

    Ochazuke

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    Hahaha, well if we remove the obvious factors like heat treatment, grind, finish, etc. then it’s pretty much down to personal preference. Any recommendation you receive would have to be tailored to what you like in knives.

    You’ve got examples listed above from a lot of different regions/styles of knife-making - Sanjo, Sakai, Echizen. People like to argue about little differences but they’re all pretty fantastic.

    Your best bet I think is to call up or email a reputable vendor and describe the knives you’ve liked using in the past and what you liked about them. Then ask for a recommendation.
     
  3. Aug 23, 2019 #3

    Elliot

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    Well, you mentioned differences in HT, etc, so, I will be short.
    Toyama/Watanabe are specifically known for their work with Blue #2 and considered by many as best-in-class with that particular steel. Some really good blades you linked, but that's where I would go, preferences in profile and budget notwithstanding.
     
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  4. Aug 23, 2019 #4

    lemeneid

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    Just buy Toyama/Watanabe. Best HT with blue2 and best edge retention and great ease of sharpening :)
     
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  5. Aug 23, 2019 #5

    5698k

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    +1 on Toyama/Watanabe. My Toyamas are by far my favorite knives.
     
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  6. Aug 23, 2019 #6

    MarkC

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    For those that own one of these, can you comment on how brittle the knives are? Would you consider using them in a professionalish type environment where cutting boards tend to be plastic?
     
  7. Aug 23, 2019 #7

    Elliot

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    I have not found it chippy at all, but I am a home cook and use Hasegawa cutting boards, so perhaps others can speak more appropriately as it relates to your environment.
     
  8. Aug 23, 2019 #8

    lemeneid

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  9. Aug 23, 2019 #9

    flying hippo

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    I can't give you a comparison as I've only used the Anryu B2 Tsuchime. I will say I've seen minor fit and finish issues with variations in the hammered finish and the blade path/ grind may look uneven in some examples. Some knives in this line look better than others.

    Having said that, I love this knife. The Anryu is a great all around knife, very accessible middle of the road geometry, with the grind neither thin nor thick, with good food release. Nice rosewood handle to boot too. For the price, you're getting a heck of a lot. Definitely one of the top value for money knives out there and highly respected.

    What little I know of the others on your list is all positive. It's possible you have no real bad choices in your list.

    By the way what were the two knives whose links were **** out?
     
  10. Aug 23, 2019 #10

    MarkC

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    Thanks. For me, it is kind of like getting the answer you asked for but now don't want. That thread did a great job of showing how the knife performed doing things that I would be using it for, namely chopping vegetables but doing it on a plastic board. The result was after one lone shift of chopping zucchini (a pretty soft vegetable), the knife had a lot of chips in it. They were fixable, but not what I was hoping for. Thanks for providing the link.
     
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  11. Aug 23, 2019 #11

    M1k3

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    One thing to know about his Watanabe, he thins it until chips happen. Then backs off a little. That chipping that happened isn't from the maker, he found the limit.

    EDIT: Spelling error
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
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  12. Aug 23, 2019 #12

    RDalman

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    *thinking intensifies* :D
     
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  13. Aug 23, 2019 #13

    Barmoley

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    You have to consider that it was with a very aggressive (zero) edge and 400lb of zucchini, summer squash, and eggplant on plastic boards. Later in the thread after microbevel was set the edge became much more durable.
     
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  14. Aug 23, 2019 #14

    ian

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    Yea, that thread title is a little misleading, because it sounds like he is testing the out-of-the-box geometry . It should really be “let’s see how far stringer can push his tools”. I mean, he also made his Shihan microchip up a storm in a similar thread, and to my knowledge, those are supposed to be super durable. That said, I love those threads.
     
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  15. Aug 23, 2019 #15

    M1k3

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    :oops:
     
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  16. Aug 23, 2019 #16

    aszma

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    See thats what im curious about because a toyama and a watanabe are priced very is it hust heat treatment that makes the difference and if so how much longer dose the edge on a toyama last vs a watanabe?
     
  17. Aug 23, 2019 #17

    aszma

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    what exactly is the dif between the two ive heard people say watanabe and toyama are very similar but ive also seen a lot of people say toyama is #1
     
  18. Aug 23, 2019 #18

    5698k

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    I believe the knives are similar such that if one was available, either is equally good. If there’s any advantage to Toyama it would be that Toyama is the older knife maker.
     
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  19. Aug 23, 2019 #19

    MarkC

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    Really appreciate the folks on this forum and also some of the vendors I have traded notes with. Most give the same message that these knives are great, have a great and thin edge, but must be handled very carefully. Unfortunately, when I mention the commercial kitchen plastic boards, they all warn of likely chipping issues. Not to say they wouldn't sell the knives to me, but they are being open and providing as much information as possible.
     
  20. Aug 23, 2019 #20

    JBroida

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    I’ve used watanabe blue 2 on poly boards... unless you have a lot of experience with blades like this, chances are you will see some microchipping initially... nothing horrible but it’s worth being aware of. You can easily adjust use and/or sharpening to alleviate those issues.
     
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  21. Aug 23, 2019 #21

    MarkC

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    Jon, based on our exchanges on similar knives, I went ahead and just orders one of your En's this afternoon. LMK if you think this will work for my needs or if I should adjust the order. Thanks.
     
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  22. Aug 23, 2019 #22

    JBroida

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    hey... i'm way up in the mountains near yosemite right now and cell reception and internet are spotty at best... i will do my best to respond when i can
     
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  23. Aug 24, 2019 #23

    Michi

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    DB Edit: Michi, There's times when I think you would argue with a stump. And enjoy it.

    Let's not do that again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2019
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  24. Aug 24, 2019 #24

    flying hippo

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    I apologize for the really stupid question but "buy Toyama/Watanabe" means buy either a Toyama knife or Watanabe knife. Am I right in assuming that there isn't a single knife that was made by a collaboration between Toyama and Watanabe?
     
  25. Aug 24, 2019 #25

    MarkC

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    Not a dumb question but they are different makers so not a collaboration type thing. I think the intent was that they are roughly equivalent knives and people would be happy with either.
     
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  26. Aug 24, 2019 #26

    flying hippo

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    Listing the knives here for clarity:

    Toyama Noborikoi Stainless Clad Blue Gyuto 240mm
    Watanabe Stainless Clad Gyuto 240mm
    Konosuke Fujiyama FT Blue #2 Gyuto 240mm
    Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura Wa Gyuto 240mm
    Katsushige Anryu Tsuchime Gyuto 240mm
    Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus Gyuto 240mm with custom octagonal Ebony handle
    Gihei Blue #2 Gyuto 240mm

    Like Aszma, I'm also curious what people think about the knives on this list.
     
  27. Aug 24, 2019 #27

    ian

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    I’ve been told the ban is because of the cktg forum, so that we don’t encourage the competition. Now I feel bad mentioning that they have a forum, since I’m violating the spirit of the censorship. So, don’t go there! I’ve heard from someone who heard from someone whose cousin heard from someone else that that the Hilary Clinton pizzagate rumors started there.

    Agree that it looks petulant, though, especially since it’s a site that also sells knives, so it gets referenced a lot. Also seems unnecessary.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2019
  28. Aug 24, 2019 #28

    bahamaroot

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    All those knives listed have quality steel. As far as exactly why the differences in price, there is not always a clear reason why. It's all the reasons you listed and many more and there is usually diminishing returns the higher the price gets.

    The censorship has nothing to do with the forum or competition, it's because of an old feud between Dave Martell and Mark Richmond. The parting of the ways gave birth to KKF from Dave and CKTG forum from Mark. Most the pettiness lies on this side of the fence though. There is no censorship towards the KKF or any of the vendors associated with it over there. Nuff said there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  29. Aug 24, 2019 #29
    That is how things got started but this is now and that was then. This forum has become pretty Togo neutral and the only remnants of the divisiveness is that direct links to a competing forum are censored. Let's not bog down yet another thread with unnecessary distractions.
     
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  30. Aug 24, 2019 #30

    Elliot

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    I’d still argue for Toyama/Watanabe.
    The FT is CONSIDERABLY thinner and a lovely knife in its right. I like my FT very much.

    As for why everyone keeps saying Toyama/Watanabe, I don’t want to start this whole thing, but most believe it’s the same exact knife, even made by the same person.
     

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