I'm not sure I understood what you were saying here.
Did you mean using a high grit stone, like a 6k for instance, but not long enough to fully convert/replace the scratch pattern from a coarser stone?
What grit do you finish your knives on?
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Did you mean using a high grit stone, like a 6k for instance, but not long enough to fully convert/replace the scratch pattern from a coarser stone?
More like 8-10k. Yes, very few ligh high passes.
It does. Also has the ability to shave off the very weak edge steel.
Kippington
A small green parrot
Kristoffer
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Thanks for the feedback! A Rika 5k it is then (at least until room opens up in the budget for a decent Aizu).
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
It's not entirely clear to me how much that differs from just finishing on the coarser stone and being done with it.
Each grit produces a particular scratch pattern, with scratches of a certain width and depth. If I finish on a coarse stone, I end up with a coarse scratch pattern. With the fine stone, I end up with a fine scratch pattern. If I now go back to a coarse stone, I just end up putting the same coarse scratches back that were there after I used the coarse stone the first time.
I can sort of see the idea of "roughening up" the edge just a little. I'm not sure though that this would be noticeably better than finishing on the coarser stone. I suspect that, if I were to try this, it would be near impossible to objectively make out any real difference.
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I think there is more involved than finishing stone scratch pattern. I can certainly discern a difference in edge between 400 grit>5k, 1k>5k and 2k>5k progressions.
I can see polishing the primary bevel (even a small one) on a high grit stone, and then raising the angle slightly to give a microbevel in one or two strokes on a coarser stone. I don’t do this, but it’s qualitatively different than finishing coarse, and theoretically would be better since the edge would have teeth while the bevel would be smooth and frictionless. I bet I couldn’t tell the difference, though.
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I suspect this is because none of us spend long enough on the finishing stone to actually remove the previous scratches. I suppose it’s true that in the situation Michi’s talking about, if you polish the primary bevel with 5k for a long time, then go down to 1k for a minute still on the whole primary bevel (not like in my post above), then you’ll get a more polished surface with a bunch of deep scratches. However, as Michi indicates I’m not sure I could tell the difference between that and a surface with just a bunch of deep scratches.
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I’m thinking in terms of micro serrations that are created by the initial stone in a sharpening progression creating a new fresh edge.
initial micro serrations created from using a 400 grit, 1k and 2k will look quite different.
The second stone used in a progression to polish and refine those micro serrations should produce varying edges due to the different sizes of micro serrations that were originally created.
I mean sure, if you spend and infinite amount of time on your finisher you can wipe away much the blend of low grit serrations+polishing refinement to the point where there is just finished stone serrations only.
The same way I understand a single Jnat as offering a blend of multiple grit sizes is also how I understand a sharpening progression but to a lesser degree.
initial micro serrations created from using a 400 grit, 1k and 2k will look quite different.
The second stone used in a progression to polish and refine those micro serrations should produce varying edges due to the different sizes of micro serrations that were originally created.
I mean sure, if you spend and infinite amount of time on your finisher you can wipe away much the blend of low grit serrations+polishing refinement to the point where there is just finished stone serrations only.
The same way I understand a single Jnat as offering a blend of multiple grit sizes is also how I understand a sharpening progression but to a lesser degree.
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On a 400 I keep having a burr that won't get any smaller and only flips.
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Primary bevel I'll take to .3 micron if I have an hour or two to spend on it. The edge I'll do to 5k - quick strop to 12k - then use a loaded peice of leather and finish on felt.
@Benuser for knives that I finish @ a 500grit stone I find it best to de-burr by stripping on a piece of wood (an old bookers bourbon box), that's just me though - I know a lot of people do it pretty well on a stone.
@Benuser for knives that I finish @ a 500grit stone I find it best to de-burr by stripping on a piece of wood (an old bookers bourbon box), that's just me though - I know a lot of people do it pretty well on a stone.
Finish edge leading.
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Thanks!
VICTOR J CREAZZI
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I often use a Washita with light pressure it seems to finish higher than 1k. With pressure it is much lower. Kind of a one stop shop.
Do you use your washita with oil or water? I have a light colored washita that I just cleaned up. I haven't tried it on knives yet, but it has done a respectable job on some straight razors. For that application I definitely prefer oil so far. How do you use it?
VICTOR J CREAZZI
Senior Member
I use it with water and propylene glycol. I spray some water on it and add a few drops of the PG. That's what I use on all of my oil stones. Easy and clean.
Thanks. I'll have to try that.
MrHiggins
Senior Member
I often go to a high grit (Gesshin 6k or Kitayama 8k), then do a few finishing/no-pressure passes on a 3 or 4k stone (Nubetama 3k, Gesshin 4k). I feel like I can form a great apex on the edge with the high grit stones, then make it toothier with the 3k. Give it a try some time.
I'm always doing something different, though, depending on how I'm feeling at the moment. My most common finisher is either the Gesshin 6k S&G or the Nubetama 3k, depending on the knife.
Very interesting thread.
My usual process is 2k Shapton, 5k Shapton then 8k or 12k Shapton, or Naniwa SStone 10,000. Then I strop on diamond paste. 0.25u or 0.5u,loaded onto MDF or (best of all) loaded onto a board of soft pine, which has been sanded very smooth with 1200 paper. The pine appears to act a little like balsa. Killer sharp edges on all my knives.
My usual process is 2k Shapton, 5k Shapton then 8k or 12k Shapton, or Naniwa SStone 10,000. Then I strop on diamond paste. 0.25u or 0.5u,loaded onto MDF or (best of all) loaded onto a board of soft pine, which has been sanded very smooth with 1200 paper. The pine appears to act a little like balsa. Killer sharp edges on all my knives.
That sounds like a really nice razor progression. Swap out the diamond paste for CBN and the pine for basswood and you got my razor progression. Probably overkill for kitchen work. I'm curious about why you go so high and what you're using those edges for? And are you doing freehand or jig? I need more information. Inquiring minds want to know.
Steampunk
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I experiment a lot, but it really depends on the steel and function of the knife...
On beater Victorinox, etc, I've been sharpening and finishing on a JNS 800 after setting the bevel on a coarse diamond plate, and stropping on bare leather. Surprisingly, the JNS 800 munches through cheap SS, and leaves a decent working edge that can start to shave whilst maintaining an aggressive tooth. Nice feel, too, on steels that typically feel awful to sharpen.
On my Aogami knives, I'm typically finishing on my Belgian Blue, or a Shapton or Gesshin synth in the 3-6K range. Edge leading, then stropped on bare leather. I just always love sharpening this stuff. It wants to get sharp and toothy.
On Shirogami, I typically finish on my Aiiwatani from Maksim, and then strop on bare leather... Getting that 'sharp / toothy' balance, that lasts, is harder on Shirogami than Aogami. So far I find it works best if you use J-Nats, take it a little higher in the grit range than you would Aogami, and strop it routinely between low-volume meal prep. With synths, 3-4K seems to be a sweet spot, but J-Nat is better for sharpness/retention. In this circumstance, it holds its edge quite well, and is easy to sharpen.
For vintage French carbons, I love the finish I get off of my Translucent Arkansas, but it takes some time... I have a La Dressante Coticule that is faster and toothier feeling, but doesn't last quite as long on the edge. Routine bare leather stropping... These knives really make me feel I should get a steel.
Decent culinary stainless is a bit pickier than carbon... I have favorite stones for different knives.
I like my Gesshin 1K/6K Combo or a full J-Nat progression on Hiromoto's Ginsan, Gesshin 2-4K on Suisin AUS-8, La Dressante Coticule or synth from 6-12K + Diamond Strop up to 0.25 micron on SRS-15, JNS Blue Speckled Aoto for SLD, etc.
Folders I tend to take pretty high... BBW, 6-12K Synth, Pasted Strops, etc.
Butchery knives I leave as low as they can go and still deburr and shave... Typically Shapton 500 GS or Naniwa 600 Pro.
- Steampunk
On beater Victorinox, etc, I've been sharpening and finishing on a JNS 800 after setting the bevel on a coarse diamond plate, and stropping on bare leather. Surprisingly, the JNS 800 munches through cheap SS, and leaves a decent working edge that can start to shave whilst maintaining an aggressive tooth. Nice feel, too, on steels that typically feel awful to sharpen.
On my Aogami knives, I'm typically finishing on my Belgian Blue, or a Shapton or Gesshin synth in the 3-6K range. Edge leading, then stropped on bare leather. I just always love sharpening this stuff. It wants to get sharp and toothy.
On Shirogami, I typically finish on my Aiiwatani from Maksim, and then strop on bare leather... Getting that 'sharp / toothy' balance, that lasts, is harder on Shirogami than Aogami. So far I find it works best if you use J-Nats, take it a little higher in the grit range than you would Aogami, and strop it routinely between low-volume meal prep. With synths, 3-4K seems to be a sweet spot, but J-Nat is better for sharpness/retention. In this circumstance, it holds its edge quite well, and is easy to sharpen.
For vintage French carbons, I love the finish I get off of my Translucent Arkansas, but it takes some time... I have a La Dressante Coticule that is faster and toothier feeling, but doesn't last quite as long on the edge. Routine bare leather stropping... These knives really make me feel I should get a steel.
Decent culinary stainless is a bit pickier than carbon... I have favorite stones for different knives.
I like my Gesshin 1K/6K Combo or a full J-Nat progression on Hiromoto's Ginsan, Gesshin 2-4K on Suisin AUS-8, La Dressante Coticule or synth from 6-12K + Diamond Strop up to 0.25 micron on SRS-15, JNS Blue Speckled Aoto for SLD, etc.
Folders I tend to take pretty high... BBW, 6-12K Synth, Pasted Strops, etc.
Butchery knives I leave as low as they can go and still deburr and shave... Typically Shapton 500 GS or Naniwa 600 Pro.
- Steampunk
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No steeling with French carbons, if you have the choice. Try the Belgian Blue instead to revive the edge. Old school trick: no water but saliva.
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DisconnectedAG
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For anything carbon or R2 kitchen, 4k or Hakka jnat. For VG10, Naniwa Professional 2k. For Western stainless Naniwa Traditional 1500.
Kristoffer
Well-Known Member
I finally got time to try my new Suehiro Rika 5000 on Mazakis Shirogami today. As advertised it left some really nice bit. It was quite the difference to the Ohishi 6000 I used as a finisher previously, which could make any steel glide across tomato skin like Elsa in Disney on ice.
...truth be told, it could just as well have been that my technique now sucks slightly less and that i didn’t roll the edge on the finer stone. I’d much rather think it was thanks to the addiction-feed by certain helpful KKF members though.
...truth be told, it could just as well have been that my technique now sucks slightly less and that i didn’t roll the edge on the finer stone. I’d much rather think it was thanks to the addiction-feed by certain helpful KKF members though.
DisconnectedAG
Well-Known Member
This is the second time in a short period I see people mention belgian blue. I have one I bought off knives and tools without any expectations, but how the heck do you use it? It does absolutely nothing for me. I've tried it with heaps of water (it's very thirsty) I've tried it with minimal water. I've tried it for edge finishing (it does **** all for me) and for polishing (waste of time).
Any advice appreciated. I'm not that bothered, as it was just a bit of a laugh when I bought it, but it would be interesting to understand how people actually use these.
I have had one for some time and found it only useable with slurry. Even then it’s so awfully slow that I decided to get rid of it.
The problem with belgian stones is that they don’t really release their abrasive on their own. The garnets just sit there only showing the very peak. As they are rather round due to the crystal configuration makes the stone almost useless without slurry.
Beginning to realise my technique is ****.. having problems getting a clean apex on lower grits. could you explain what you mean by rolling the edge on the finer stone?
