What is a Sabatier profile?

[mark76]

In another topic (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/20669-Massmoto-KS-270-Gyuto) we already had a discussion about this subject. But I don’t want to pollute that thread even further, so I thought I’d better start a separate topic.

My questions are basically:
- what is exactly a Sabatier profile?
- which Japanese knives have such a profile?

What I learned from the other thread is that Sabatier knives have a very long flat “stretch”. About from the heel to 2/3 of the blade, after which the upward curve starts. That's good for push-cutting.

This is a picture that illustrates it:



However, other pictures posted in that threat showed Sabatiers that had a flat stretch that only lasted until half of the blade:



And in some pictures even the flat stretch had a slight curve.



This makes me wonder what exactly is meant by a traditional Sabatier profile. Is it a long flat stretch or is it something else? Or a combination of things?

 

[Benuser]

I hope not to cause even more confusion. This is NOT a Sabatier profile, it's a Misono Swedish. Edge and spine are almost symmetric in the tip and belly area. A French tip is a bit higher, the belly slightly more pronounced.

 

[Benuser]

I should add that -- beside of the profile -- what's characteristic of the Sabatiers is the strong distal taper: especially with the vintages you see a crazy thick heel and a just as crazy thin tip, all this with a slightly forward balance.

 

[daveb]

With French copyright/trademark law any Tom, Dick or Henri can make a knife and call it a Sab. This is probably the reason for the myriad profiles. When you get to particular Sabs (K Sabs, 4 Star, Two Lions, Trompets, Professionsal, Nogents, Hoffritz, Chef Ritz and Juene etc. etc.) you'll start seeing consistent profiles.

Four Star and Nogents seem to command the highest prices on the Bay, with Professional not far behind.

Should you be interested in owning a Sab I've got a genuine, made in Thiers, China, new in box that I might part with.:angel2: It's got more belly than I do but it's a Sab cause it says so.

 

[mark76]

Yeah, I know Sabatier is not a protected trademark. Just as Laguiole. Still I know pretty well what a Laguiole knife looks like. I'd like to know what a traditional Sabatier knife looks like. Thus far I haven't gotten any further than a strong distal taper (thanks Ben). From the other examples of Sabatiers I've seen in this thread and the other one I cannot get a consistent idea yet.

 

[MikeHL]

From the top:
Nogent Sabatier (1960's newish)
Masamoto KS (moderately used)
Victorinox for reference (newish)

Hope this helps.

 

[Benuser]

All makers have adopted more or less the original Sabatier profile, but that 's more than a century ago, and have since adapted it more or less to the needs of their public and their local tradition. But the as the French used to be by far the most conservative, their profiles are the closest to the original.