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welshstar

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Hi

Looking at these knives online they appear to have all the qualities of significantly higher price knives. Could you advuse what am i missing please ?

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

They appear to be equivalent at $81 to a $200-300 Gyuto.

There is always a catch, what is it please ?

Alan
 

stevenStefano

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The things you are paying extra for with say a $300 Masamoto? Geometry, profile, edge retention, fit and finish, less reactive steel. Fujiwaras are decent value knives, but at the same time, I think the more expensive knives are still worth the money. I have a $145 JCK KV8 and I have a $400 Watanabe. Which is worth the money? Both of them
 

Cadillac J

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Fujiwara (both FKM and FKH) are what I like to recommend to people just starting out. The ones you posted have great profiles and fit/finish for their price, but they are lacking in the steel department. SK4 has much more impurities versus the higher end carbons...both my FKHs I owned previously always had an odor/flavor when cutting anything remotely acidic, but I still have my FKM(stainless) honesuki and my travel knife is my FKM suji.

Edge taking is pretty good and retention is average. I love Fujiwara for what they are--you will see many posts from me here or on the other forums saying if they made these in a semi-stainless like the TKC/CN, they would be my favorite yo-handled knives.
 

Eamon Burke

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They don't perfect the finish, the design is geared more towards function and simplicity rather than nuanced performance. They are plain looking. They are made in a factory. The steel isn't top-notch, nor is the heat treat.

Honestly, for 80% of cooks/chefs out there, this is the kind of knife you want to use and abuse. The other knives are for you to enjoy, but these will destroy some food with the best of them.
 

JohnnyChance

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It's a Kia Soul. Does it get you from A to B, same as Audi A4? Sure. But is the craftsmanship as good? No. Performance? No. Does it help you with the ladies? No.
 

welshstar

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Johnny

Great, finally an analogy that i can relate to, cars !!

In my life i go for fit, finish and classic type products. Im not into the fanciest showiest things but i do appreciate great quality. To give examples, I prefer my Stainless Steel Rolex Submariner over other watches because it has a timeless fit and finish. Other people would say that its overpriced but 20 years later i still love my sub and they have had 20 other watches. The same with cars, I typically purchase Audi, BMW, Lexus etc but a 5 series or A6 nothing to showy.

So having said all that if i can relate knives to cars/watches then it will make it all very easy to understand.

What is the ideal knife style brand that would relate to my Rolex ? if you said say the MAC Ultimate you would make me very happy, if you said it had to be one of the higher grade Japanese knives please could you select a couple of brands and ranges, i like the JCK store, prices seem to be reasonable. Things that im looking for im my new Gyuto are fit/finish, I prefer a thin blade ( have a MAC Cleaver ), western handle ( thicker the better ), would like Damascus but only for cosmetic, im only a home cook so its light use but i want something that I can be proud of for 20 years and will never second guess again. Im willing to pay a reasonable amount for a 240-270 mm knife, anywhere from $100-$500, as much as i need to fulfill the criteria of never having to worry if i bought a great knife

Alan
 

stevenStefano

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Looking at your criteria I'd get a Hattori FH. Impeccable fit and finish, totally awesome Western handle and VG10 blade which is pretty solid. It isn't laserish thin and isn't Damascus which means it doesn't tick all your boxes, but it is a very good knife. It is also fairly reasonably priced.
 

welshstar

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Steven

Thanks, ive never heard of Hattori but a quick scan around seems to indicate they are very good. What about the HD range? same price and Damascus, its just that it seems thicker and heavier, do you think its a bad trade off for cosmetics ?

alan
 

Eamon Burke

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I think Pierre can do a 210 in this price range? I don't know for sure, you should ask him. But his 240s he did for CKTG, which are out of stock, are just in under your range, though they weren't special order.
 

Pensacola Tiger

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Steven

Thanks, ive never heard of Hattori but a quick scan around seems to indicate they are very good. What about the HD range? same price and Damascus, its just that it seems thicker and heavier, do you think its a bad trade off for cosmetics ?

alan
Having owned both, yes it is a bad trade off. The geometry of the HD is inferior, IMHO. Go with the FH series.
 

stevenStefano

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I agree with Rick but for a different reason. The FH handle is downright beautiful, it might not have damascus like the HD but the FH is a handsome knife. You also get an awesome presentation box with it. Just my suggestion, I'm sure there are others
 

Cadillac J

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Things that im looking for im my new Gyuto are fit/finish, I prefer a thin blade ( have a MAC Cleaver ), western handle
Look into Konosuke HD western gyutos...they would fit the bill here perfectly
 

Seb

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+1 for the Konosuke HD Western!
 

welshstar

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Hi

I was looking around for info on the Knoosuke and came across the Gesshin Ginha western handled stainless Gyuto's. they seem to be beautiful, nice blades, rounded spines etc. They also have that great thin profile im looking for.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...uto/gesshin-ginga-270mm-stainless-gyuto.html#

The Konosuke and the Hattori FH both seem very good but this Gesshin just seems to cross all my boxes and be of equally quality to the first two and just catches my eye better.

Am i missing something ?

Alan
 

tk59

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I've handled the Hattori FH, HD (Ittosai Kotetsu), KonHD and Gesshin/Ashi. The Konosuke and Ashi are very similar in terms of grind. Ashi is stainless and both are excellent. I have not tried out a Konosuke western but I like the Ashi a lot. With regard to the Hattori knives, I think both are a step behind the Kon/Ashi in pretty much all respects but I would give the nod to the HD. I found the Hattori FH to feel clumsy and odd, although I do agree the handle was very nice. The HD is thinner behind the edge, making it a better cutter. The spine and choil are rounded so it is more comfortably to use and it looks much nicer, although the pretty cladding does scratch up quite easily. From my personal experience, I would go for an Ashi-Gesshin first then a Hattori HD. There's no way I'd ever keep an FH in my block but the HD still sees occasional use.
 

welshstar

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TK

Im just a bit confused, im not sure when you are talking about the Hattori HD and the konosuke HD.

Alan
 

tk59

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Haha, sorry! I think the Ashi and KonHD are great knives. The Hattori HD is a pretty good knife. The FH is also a good knife but I like it least among the four. I own something from each of the first three. I passed on the fourth (FH).
 

Wagstaff

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"I would give the nod to the HD." -- in that part, he's talking solely Hattori, would give the HD the nod over the FH.

"The HD is thinner behind the edge, making it a better cutter" -- again, the Hattori HD is thinner behind the edge than the Hattori FH.

"There's no way I'd ever keep an FH in my block but the HD still sees occasional use." -- again, the HD is the Hattori, but only vs. the Hattori FH.

"I think both are a step behind the Kon/Ashi in pretty much all respects" -- here I think it's clear. The Konosuke or the Ashi (in whatever steel) is a step ahead of even the Hattori HD (which is a step ahead of the Hattori FH).

I'm interpreting, I've never used any of the Hattori knives. I think the Gesshin Ginga (Ashi) and the Konosuke are very close indeed, depending on which steel options you might prefer. My own choice for a petty was the Gesshin Ginga; for a larger knife (a gyuto) it may well be the Konosuke HD.

But are we getting away from what you asked, in terms of needing a yo-handle?

Edit -- ok, tk59 speaks for himself, so my post is redundant. But I'll leave it up just for the line-by-line exegesis :)
 
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Vertigo

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Whoa there buddy! I can't find my dictionary under all this sandpaper and swarf. Did you just swear at someone?! :jumpy:

A Hattori HD was my first j-knife purchase, and I loved it right up until the day I realized that the cladding extended down to the edge in some parts, and that it was over-ground sharply in the middle of the right face. Spent hours fussing with it, until I'd basically punched a hole right through the thing trying to even the grind. Can't see myself buying another Hattori (though the pictures make the FH look awfully sexy).
 

jaybett

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Whoa there buddy! I can't find my dictionary under all this sandpaper and swarf. Did you just swear at someone?!
Well if that's swearing? Then is Isogesis a compliment?

Jay
 

Wagstaff

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yeah, my vocab is hung! "Sandpaper and swarf" is a lovely phrase though. I'll steal that for a poem sometime.
 

Wagstaff

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Damn, you stole that back right quick! Good job. Seriously, actually.
 

welshstar

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Great

In the same thread one person is adamant that the Hattori HD blows away the FH, another person says the exact opposite !!!!

Back to the cars/watches. is it BMW/Mercedes, Ford/GM, Mustang/Camero type of thing where there is no real right and wrong you just have to weed through the info and make the best educated guess !!

Alan
 

Wagstaff

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If everyone agreed, everyone would have the same knives.... there's no real right and wrong, but for any individual there might be.

That said, get the Konosuke or the Gesshin/Ashi. That way there's no moral failing and your eternal soul is safe.
 

AMP01

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All I can say is, I have a Hattori FH 270mm Gyuto and I love it! Maybe it does not hold an edge as long as a carbon knife, but it is truly a pleasure to use. It is thin, came pretty darn sharp right out of the box, and at 270mm, it feels very nimble in my hand. Too each is own.

Cheers,

Andrew
 
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