What knives do you use for fish butchery?

[c8iled]

I work in sushi and my teacher is a guy with 15 yrs experience. I never paid much attention to it until my coworkers pointed it out, but he *exclusively* uses yanagiba to cut, filet and slice fish whereas using a deba for most of the butchery is more common. He's been teaching me to do everything the same way he does (down to using only yanagi/sujihiki for fish butchery) and I was wondering how many people actually do it this way.

 

[KingShapton]

I very rarely process fish (my wife can't stand it) and on the rare occasions I use a beater - but that's what the results look like...

But basically I understand your teacher...

He is your teacher/trainer and he will show you his way of processing, his approach.

That's the only thing that makes sense. He shows you what he can do best, the way he has perfected for himself.

And the way you describe it, he has the approach to keep things simple. Which only means that with a Yanagi he can do everything that is necessary with a good result. Sounds like a teacher with a lot of experience.

I would learn as much as I could from this man and embark on his way. You may find that you don't need more than a Yanagi.... and you can always try out other knives for fish butchery later.

Keeping things simple is usually a very good idea with surprisingly good results.

 

[Atso_J]

I very rarely process fish (my wife can't stand it) and on the rare occasions I use a beater - but that's what the results look like...

But basically I understand your teacher...

He is your teacher/trainer and he will show you his way of processing, his approach.

That's the only thing that makes sense. He shows you what he can do best, the way he has perfected for himself.

And the way you describe it, he has the approach to keep things simple. Which only means that with a Yanagi he can do everything that is necessary with a good result. Sounds like a teacher with a lot of experience.

I would learn as much as I could from this man and embark on his way. You may find that you don't need more than a Yanagi.... and you can always try out other knives for fish butchery later.

Keeping things simple is usually a very good idea with surprisingly good results.

I'll just +1 this quickly as there's pretty much nothing to add to this scenario.

For a multipurpose home kitchen such as mine a different approach is required as there will be other stuff to deal with as well. I'm waiting for a Sakai Kikumori yo-deba to arrive (got a used one for a steal!) and that will probably be the backbone of processing animal products for me. Fish, chicken, beef you name it. I'm still in the process of compiling the "perfect" set of knives for my kitchen.

To sum it up:

In your situation, 100% what KingShapton said.

Home kitchen, might be unpractical to rely on just one highly specialized knife.

 

[Jovidah]

I'm just a home user without fancy training, and I don't do a ton of fish... so I stick with a simple western filetting knife.
The Mora Companion Fishing Fillet Knife... costs like 30 bucks, has decent steel and works well.
Morakniv Companion Fishing Fillet 155 (S) | Morakniv

I really can't be bothered investing in a deba and learning how to use it for the few fish I fillet in a year... especially when this thing just works.

 

[Jovidah]

I'll just +1 this quickly as there's pretty much nothing to add to this scenario.

For a multipurpose home kitchen such as mine a different approach is required as there will be other stuff to deal with as well. I'm waiting for a Sakai Kikumori yo-deba to arrive (got a used one for a steal!) and that will probably be the backbone of processing animal products for me. Fish, chicken, beef you name it. I'm still in the process of compiling the "perfect" set of knives for my kitchen.

Not sure a yo-deba would really be the most ideal tool there... I think if I had to pick just one I'd just settle on a western boning knife.

 

[Alder26]

The use of a single knife that is on the long, slender, sliced side of the spectrum sounds somewhat western to me. Pretty interesting to hear that your teacher does it this way. I totally agree with the above posts. This person obviously has a wealth of knowledge, even if they are somewhat unorthodox. Learn everything you can but also keep trying things for yourself.

Personally I use several knives for breaking down fish. Knife selection depends on size and type of fish. Also my perspective comes from western methods of fish cutting.

13" scimitar (for salmon primarily and skinning fillets)
7' scimitar (for trout and trimming around bones on larger fish)
150mm deba (for parting fillets from the skeleton)
270mm sujihiki (for portions)
150mm petty (for portions and trimming)

 

[Atso_J]

Not sure a yo-deba would really be the most ideal tool there... I think if I had to pick just one I'd just settle on a western boning knife.

I'm not going for a single knife tactic. The idea is to have a knife more robust than a gyuto as an all-rounder in the butchering department while still retaining some versatility to avoid unnecessary switching between knives to some extent. I do have a 10mm thick double bevel deba that can do surgical slices off a tomato but I'm having trouble seeing past the mune while doing it

 

[Jovidah]

To each their own... but for me the most important thing in butchering is to have a knife with less blade height... it just gets in the way. I only grab a fat beater knife when I have to chop throguh a bone or something.

 

[M1k3]

I do quite a bit of Salmon and Sea Bream, the occasional other fish also (Sea Bass and Halibut lately). I use 1 Gyuto to break them down, clean and portion. I would not call myself a professional fish monger though. Just a line cook trying to get **** done.

 

[Jovidah]

I can imagine the size of the fish also makes a difference for what works? I'm cheap so I always tend to buy a lot of the small fish... since they're cheap. Hence small knife. Double cheap.

 

[btbyrd]

I'm a big advocate of "do what works." But I also find it somewhat strange that your teacher is using a yanagiba for everything in the context of breaking down fish for sushi. It would be nice to have that amount of skill with a single knife, but I think I'd also want to have deba skills (at least if I was doing sushi as my main gig).

 

[M1k3]

I can imagine the size of the fish also makes a difference for what works? I'm cheap so I always tend to buy a lot of the small fish... since they're cheap. Hence small knife. Double cheap.

Or just buy a big knife for the little AND big fish (I'm using a 260mm on little Sea Bream's ).

 

[mpier]

I’ve been butchering fish for years, I use three knives a fillet knife a butcher knife for making stakes and my Yanagiba for Sushi. I would agree that in general it’s what work best for you and of course different types of fish my take different techniques and with that comes different tools, for instance I rarely clean or prep fish over 60 pounds

 

[c8iled]

The use of a single knife that is on the long, slender, sliced side of the spectrum sounds somewhat western to me. Pretty interesting to hear that your teacher does it this way. I totally agree with the above posts. This person obviously has a wealth of knowledge, even if they are somewhat unorthodox. Learn everything you can but also keep trying things for yourself.

Personally I use several knives for breaking down fish. Knife selection depends on size and type of fish. Also my perspective comes from western methods of fish cutting.

13" scimitar (for salmon primarily and skinning fillets)
7' scimitar (for trout and trimming around bones on larger fish)
150mm deba (for parting fillets from the skeleton)
270mm sujihiki (for portions)
150mm petty (for portions and trimming)

A lot of the ways he works could be considered unorthodox! It's interesting to find out this is one of them. Many experienced (9-25 yrs) chefs I've met and watched work with very conventional methods and confined attitudes so I'm very happy to find that I'm learning in a way that isn't strictly 'to the books'. Thank you for sharing your knives--how long & how many fish did it take you to find the right combination of knives?

I'm a big advocate of "do what works." But I also find it somewhat strange that your teacher is using a yanagiba for everything in the context of breaking down fish for sushi. It would be nice to have that amount of skill with a single knife, but I think I'd also want to have deba skills (at least if I was doing sushi as my main gig).

I agree with you in that it might be better to also know how to use a deba--I think I'd like to learn how to use a yanagi for everything (because with my clean learning slate, off the bat, yanagi feels easier than a deba) but at least have the additional knowledge of how other knives can be utilised.

When I asked him why he only ever uses yanagi and why I've never seen him use a deba, all he said was "Deba is for cutting off the head. Yanagi is better." and nothing else.

 

[Greasylake]

When I asked him why he only ever uses yanagi and why I've never seen him use a deba, all he said was "Deba is for cutting off the head. Yanagi is better." and nothing else.

I mostly agree with him on this actually. I have found that my ideal kit is a really thick double bevel deba, a thin mioroshi or ai-deba, and a yanagiba. The thick double bevel deba is only for taking off the head and cutting bones or really hard skin, like on a tuna. I have found that I prefer a thinner knife for filleting, so for any knife over 150mm I prefer either mioroshi or ai-deba rather than a traditionally thick hon-deba. The main reason I wouldn't use a yanagiba is because I like to keep the edge as sharp as I can, so I don't want it to touch a bone ever, but a nice thin yanagiba would be quite good for filleting I think. Then the yanagiba I use for skinning, portioning fillets, and doing the final cutting of the fish, typical yanagiba tasks I suppose.

 

[Ochazuke]

I'm not sure of the volume of your restaurant, but in general it is easier to get a cleaner filet using a long slender blade.

However, for high volume processing from whole fish a deba is hard to beat. When you do business in the millions of dollars per year, and consider the amount of fish that you go through there's no way a yanagiba would stand up that that abuse. But if you're in a place where you do only do 50-80 covers a night then I can see a yanagiba functioning as your all purpose knife.

Once you get in the the hundreds of covers a night range, then a deba would be way more useful than a yanagiba in terms of speed, efficiency, and fatigue prevention (counter-intuitively).

 

[Alder26]

A lot of the ways he works could be considered unorthodox! It's interesting to find out this is one of them. Many experienced (9-25 yrs) chefs I've met and watched work with very conventional methods and confined attitudes so I'm very happy to find that I'm learning in a way that isn't strictly 'to the books'. Thank you for sharing your knives--how long & how many fish did it take you to find the right combination of knives?

I agree with you in that it might be better to also know how to use a deba--I think I'd like to learn how to use a yanagi for everything (because with my clean learning slate, off the bat, yanagi feels easier than a deba) but at least have the additional knowledge of how other knives can be utilised.

When I asked him why he only ever uses yanagi and why I've never seen him use a deba, all he said was "Deba is for cutting off the head. Yanagi is better." and nothing else.

It didn't take terribly long before I settled on using the scimitars for salmon and skinning. I was shown to cut fish with a curved scimitars my first time in a restaurant, and have yet to find something I like better. However, I have experimented with other knives and continue to do so.

 

[Walla]

To each their own...he definitely has found a way which works for him...which is fine.

Personally, when I am training someone, I definitely show them how I do it. But being left handed I'm aware that sometimes right handed people have a hard time switching things around...so I try as often as I can to get another person to show them how they do it...in a restaurant usually (though not everywhere...some places have a very specific process...but that's another story) all that matters is if the final product is up to standard and is done in a timely manner... different people end up at the finish line differently...and that's ok..

I'm a firm believer in the more you know, the more you know. Ultimately should you learn how to butcher a fish with a deba...yes absolutely...will it work for you...only one way to tell... that's by doing it.

I'm a cook...chef... whatever you want to call it...have been for a long time 30 years +...have I worked using single bevel Japanese knives using Japanese techniques...no...but I fail to see how using a Yanagi on small fish...say something like a makerel is more effective. Knives are made in different lengths...not that you need every size...but just because you can doesn't make it right or the best choice.

You could carve a prime rib with a paring knife ...it doesn't make you more efficient...it doesn't make it right...but if that what works for you...

Take care
Jeff

 

[Ruso]

I don't cook or process much fish but I learned how to use a deba. It looked fun and I wanted to learn that process.
I think its best you learn both ways. You never know when you might need it.

 

[Pikehaus]

Fish fillets are butchered in my house nearly every day. Just a western slicing knife is used and sometimes a chef knife and sometimes even a caidao. Cutting fish bones I believe a bone cleaver is the best option, though I don't have much experience with cutting fish heads right off.

 

[Se1ryu]

I work in sushi and my teacher is a guy with 15 yrs experience. I never paid much attention to it until my coworkers pointed it out, but he *exclusively* uses yanagiba to cut, filet and slice fish whereas using a deba for most of the butchery is more common. He's been teaching me to do everything the same way he does (down to using only yanagi/sujihiki for fish butchery) and I was wondering how many people actually do it this way.

Well if you are a Sushi chef Yanagi is a must have knife. Cannot imagine sushi nar without yanagiba. I know is hard to use a deba for the first time but you need to get used to it. It is easier to fillet a fish like snapper, and medium size fish with deba. Rest the kireha (wide bevel) into the fish bone and you will get a clean cut fish fillet.

You can use 270mm chef's knife with a thicker spine and lower heat treatment for filleting the whole salmon. This is not Japanese traditional method but I found that useful especially when you are cutting/ filleting 30 whole salmon a day.

 

[4wa1l]

Bumping this up as I was hoping someone might be able to share a video of someone properly filleting fish with a yanagiba. I had always thought that knives like yanagiba were purely for slicing and weren't supposed to go anywhere near bones so curious to see how it is done.

 

[Ochazuke]

Bumping this up as I was hoping someone might be able to share a video of someone properly filleting fish with a yanagiba. I had always thought that knives like yanagiba were purely for slicing and weren't supposed to go anywhere near bones so curious to see how it is done.

"Properly" is probably best used loosely in this context.

The people I know who use yanagiba like this are usually using stainless, stamped yanagiba like the Sakai Takayuki Inox. Those things can take ridiculous abuse. I'm sure there are people who *can* do it well with a carbon ni-mai knife, but given that the point of a sashimi bocho is to be thin enough to slice fish flesh effortlessly it seems a bit counterproductive.

I think it also really depends on which technique you're using. The popular technique I see these days is to cut through where the rib bones attach to the spine and then remove the ribs and belly skin at the same time. For cutting through the rib bones, deba really makes a lot of sense. The people who I see using yanagiba are usually not severing the rib bones and leaving them attached to the spine as they remove the flesh.

For fish butchery personal preference is strongly deba, followed by gyuto (if I have to), and western filet knife if I'm at somebody else's house.

Sorry I don't have a video for you, but hope this offers a bit more perspective.

 

[coxhaus]

Back when I was young, and gas was cheap I did some deep-sea fishing. I used a 7 inch cooks knife as there was no yanagiba knives in Texas back then that I knew about. Forget debra knives. They did not exist. The little narrow fish knives were not so good on big fish. But if you wanted to clean a trout then the little filet knife was the ticket as the larger cook's knife did not work on small fish. For skinning a fish, the salmon knife works best for me as it has a flexible blade. Here is a picture of my salmon knife after I skinned a fish. In the past I used a flexible filet knife for skinning but the salmon works better nowadays.

 

[4wa1l]

"Properly" is probably best used loosely in this context.

The people I know who use yanagiba like this are usually using stainless, stamped yanagiba like the Sakai Takayuki Inox. Those things can take ridiculous abuse. I'm sure there are people who *can* do it well with a carbon ni-mai knife, but given that the point of a sashimi bocho is to be thin enough to slice fish flesh effortlessly it seems a bit counterproductive.

I think it also really depends on which technique you're using. The popular technique I see these days is to cut through where the rib bones attach to the spine and then remove the ribs and belly skin at the same time. For cutting through the rib bones, deba really makes a lot of sense. The people who I see using yanagiba are usually not severing the rib bones and leaving them attached to the spine as they remove the flesh.

For fish butchery personal preference is strongly deba, followed by gyuto (if I have to), and western filet knife if I'm at somebody else's house.

Sorry I don't have a video for you, but hope this offers a bit more perspective.

Thanks for the insight! Definitely clears things up.

I used to fish quite a bit and would fillet smaller fish similar to Tai (bream, whiting, small trevally, luderick etc.) with a thin western knife. These days I generally just buy fillets but I would like to buy whole fish and prepare these myself. Plus then I have leftover bones etc for soup.

I know my western knife is absolutely fine but I'd like to try some single bevels and from the original post was curious if I could get away with just a yanagiba. Sounds like a deba would be worth the investment though.

 

[daddy yo yo]

Fish butchery… I don’t do that much as I live way too far away from the sea. But still I bought an ajikiri for that purpose (I only do fish butchery of smaller fish) and I have 2 yanagibas (240 & 270).

 

[wabi]

I live in Hawaii, and am a pretty avid fisherman. We troll for ahi, mahi mahi, ono, and small marlin. The ocean is really rough to bottom fish here. Two times a year I go to Sitka Alaska for salmon, halibut, black cod, cod and rock fish. Did I say I like to fish? For cutting up fish at home I use a Takeda Deba, and a Frost by Mora narrow boning knife. On the boat and at the dock, I use a Bubba fillet knife. The Deba is great for cutting up carcasses for stock, but the bulk of the work both for me, and the deckhands in Alaska, are with small fillet knives.