What might this Masamoto have looked like?

Discussion in 'Kitchen Knife Knowledge' started by Carl Kotte, Jul 18, 2019.

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  1. Jul 18, 2019 #1

    Carl Kotte

    Carl Kotte

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    Here are some pictures of a knife bought used some time ago. It was pretty beaten up, but I decided to give it a go. Very happy I did. Now, in its current state (I haven’t cared to make large modifications) it has a somewhat unusual profile which makes me wonder; how did it once look? What was the original profile? It is approx 280 mm.
    IMG_2284.jpg
    IMG_2285.jpg IMG_2286.jpg
    You see a bit of overgrind here that I have neglected.
    IMG_2288.jpg
    Marks from a previous owner, maybe?

    My own uneducated guess or hypothesis is that this knife had a more standard Gyuto profile, with a higher heel, and that it has been worn down through use (it looks like a classic overgrind due to excessive use of honing rod). But this is pure speculation and it would be fun to know what you guys think. Purely for the sake of satisying an intellectual curiosity.
     
  2. Jul 18, 2019 #2
    I also think it was a gyuto. The shape of the blade towards the tip would suggest that. A choil shot could tell us more. Now it could be an interesting project to turn it into a suji.
     
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  3. Jul 18, 2019 #3

    ojisan

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    The previous owner was Akimoto-san!
     
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  4. Jul 18, 2019 #4

    Benuser

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    What is the remaining width at the heel?
     
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  5. Jul 18, 2019 #5

    Carl Kotte

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    Thanks! Excuse my ignorance, is that a common name?
     
  6. Jul 18, 2019 #6

    ojisan

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    Yes, it's a pretty common family name.
     
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  7. Jul 18, 2019 #7

    Carl Kotte

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    Yes, my thought exactly! It might be worth reprofiling it completely to turn it into a Sujihiki eventually. Or, I will use it as it is, continue sharpening and thinning it when needed - and it will step-by-step turn into sujihiki... just in time when my children are ready to inherit it
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  8. Jul 18, 2019 #8

    Carl Kotte

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    Then it will go under the name Akimoto-san in honor of the previous owner. Thanks!
     
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  9. Jul 18, 2019 #9

    Carl Kotte

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    Will check when I can! Thanks!
     
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  10. Jul 18, 2019 #10

    labor of love

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    I love the big gyuto handle on sujihiki sized blade. Looks quite badass
     
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  11. Jul 18, 2019 #11

    Carl Kotte

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    Yeah, you’re right! It looks pretty badass. And there might be advantages to having a big handle/narrower blade combination.
    I guess that, at least, this knife will save me from buying a Gyutohiki.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  12. Jul 18, 2019 #12

    Carl Kotte

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    Approx 45 mm at heel, 40 at the current belly (or the point where the curve takes off towards the tip), 275 in length.
     
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  13. Jul 19, 2019 #13

    Carl Kotte

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    A quick follow-up. I realize it is hard to answer, but I thought I’d try anyway. Anyone knows what steel this one is made of? It is pretty, but not overly, reactive and sharpens up easily. Thanks in advance!
     
  14. Jul 19, 2019 #14

    HRC_64

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    Some of the 270mm+ suji's from sanjo in aroud 43mm Tall IIRC so you can probably find various uses for this guy as a project knife.
    Looks originally like a big 300mm gyuto from a butchery shop after many years of use/daily sharpening etc...
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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  15. Jul 20, 2019 #15

    Carl Kotte

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    Thanks! Good to know about Sanjo sujihikis. If or when I decide to make more radical changes to the profile it will be good to have some model to replicate.
    I like the butchery idea! It is a bit fascinating imagining what it has been through.
     
  16. Jul 20, 2019 #16

    Benuser

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    Isn't it one of Takefu's V2 series?
     
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  17. Jul 20, 2019 #17

    Carl Kotte

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    Might very well be! Great, thanks a lot!
     
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  18. Sep 13, 2019 at 12:53 PM #18

    Carl Kotte

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    A quick update. After a lot use and some careful thinning inbetween it’s started to behave pretty well. Not overly wedgy, keeps a nice edge. At this pace it will be a sujihiki in about 10 years or so.
    IMG_3538.jpg IMG_3537.jpg
     
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  19. Sep 13, 2019 at 5:22 PM #19

    Benuser

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    How have you dealt with its asymmetry? From the photo I would say it has been attenuated.
     
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  20. Sep 13, 2019 at 6:20 PM #20

    Seth

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    Masamoto, right?
     
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  21. Sep 13, 2019 at 6:23 PM #21

    Carl Kotte

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    I think you’re absolutely right! It has been attenuated. It was already on its way there (from the previous owner), and I’ve simply followed the beaten track. The knife might be as much as 7-10 mm shorter at the heel (than it was/might have been/ when new), so the geometry is a bit messed up. There’s much work and a lot of steel left though. Would you suggest working more on the right hand side? Any other advice? Thanks
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 7:45 PM
  22. Sep 13, 2019 at 6:48 PM #22

    Carl Kotte

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    Yes, right!!!
     
  23. Sep 14, 2019 at 12:39 AM #23

    Benuser

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    No drastic measures, please. Enough width has been lost already.
    If you want to restore a bit the original configuration you may thin on the right face immediately behind the bevel, and thin the entire left face except for the area near to the edge. So you flatten the left side and off-center the edge to the left. This may improve food release and performance a little bit. For flattening the entire left I would use coarse automotive sandpaper. Again, stay far away from the edge.
     
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  24. Sep 14, 2019 at 6:53 AM #24

    Carl Kotte

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    @Benuser Thanks a lot! I’m not sure that enough width has been lost. It is for sure pretty far from the original. But that is alright, I think, given that the goal is to end up with a much narrower more standard sujihiki-like profile.
    I will make sure to hit the right side behind the edge.
     
  25. Sep 14, 2019 at 7:44 AM #25

    Carl Kotte

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    It is far from 50/50. From the picture it may appear to be something close to 40/60, but in fact it is closer to 30/70.
     
  26. Sep 14, 2019 at 2:18 PM #26

    Benuser

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    Perhaps this photo is helpful. Misono yo-deba, heavy, thick, but gives an idea of what you might aim for.
    [​IMG]
    Right bevel in one continuous arc with the convex face. Left one only as needed to get steering acceptable.
    If I insist about not touching the very edge when thinning, it's all about sparing material and reducing the life span any further. A new edge would come in a thicker part of the blade and all thinning would be have useless.
     
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  27. Sep 14, 2019 at 2:53 PM #27

    Carl Kotte

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    @Benuser Great! Once again: thank you very much.
    That Misono looks like a monster. Love it. Is it yours?
     
  28. Sep 14, 2019 at 3:26 PM #28

    Benuser

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    You're so welcome, Carl.
    The Misono is a little, most effective monster. Got it from @preizzo. Use it when I'm afraid to damage an edge. Looks like a simple santoku, is just three times its weight.
     
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