What the heck is a bench nagura?

[captaincaed]

I need some some experts help. My idea of a nagura was one you rubbed on top another for a number of reasons - cleaning the bench stone, creating slurry, a mix of grits, etc. So what the heck is a bench nagura? Isn't it just a bench stone?
This has perplexed me for ages.

 

[musicman980]

Yup its a larger natural nagura that you rub your tool on.

 

[Pie]

Mikawa and Tsushima come to mind, I’m no expert but it seems like “nagura” is simply part of the nomenclature, as opposed to the general meaning of “correcting” stone.

Seems to me like bench sized Tsushima are just really big versions of the Tsushima nagura commonly seen. Not my personal favourite nagura, but possibly interesting as a bench stone.

 

[captaincaed]

Ok so how is a nagura defined? I know how it translates, but how does a stone get to be called a bench nagura rather than a bench stone?

The "just part of the nomenclature" angle makes some sense: Tsuchimas are normally small nagura, so we'll call this huge one a bench nagura. Like that?

Any stone hounds out there with the main line? May I rope in @naader or @nutmeg or @Forty Ounce or @Badgertooth?maybe @osakajoe if I'm lucky. I can't go into the new year ignorant, it just wouldn't be right

 

[user 16756]

Nagura was a person's name, who popularized the use of that type of stone. I say popularize because he is allegedly the person who "discovered" their use as whetstones, but 1. story could be apocryphal and 2. it's never so simple. given how long humans have been around, someone probably rubbed metal against those stones before him.

Even in the case of the smaller ones, my recollection is that it refers to the type of stone rather than its use, though tomo nagura/friend nagura would be an obvious exception.

 

[Carl Kotte]

You’re a nagura!

 

[captaincaed]

My selfie

 

[Forty Ounce]

Ok so how is a nagura defined? I know how it translates, but how does a stone get to be called a bench nagura rather than a bench stone?

The "just part of the nomenclature" angle makes some sense: Tsuchimas are normally small nagura, so we'll call this huge one a bench nagura. Like that?

Any stone hounds out there with the main line? May I rope in @naader or @nutmeg or @Forty Ounce or @Badgertooth?maybe @osakajoe if I'm lucky. I can't go into the new year ignorant, it just wouldn't be right

I'm just guessing here, but I think it has to do with, like you said, the stones normally being small and primarily used as correcting stones. Could just be atypical for them to be bench size and are still referred to as nagura.

 

[captaincaed]

I don't know why this bugs me. I gather I may be the only one

 

[Rangen]

I don't know the answer either, but I do know that the chu nagura I bought from a member here is a remarkable dispenser of excellent toothy-keen kitchen knife edges. So I guess it's a category one can't just ignore.

 

[Forty Ounce]

I don't know the answer either, but I do know that the chu nagura I bought from a member here is a remarkable dispenser of excellent toothy-keen kitchen knife edges. So I guess it's a category one can't just ignore.

I wouldn't make a category based on nagura alone, it doesn't tell anything about the stone. Chu would be the important one here.

 

[Rangen]

I wouldn't make a category based on nagura alone, it doesn't tell anything about the stone. Chu would be the important one here.

Oh. I figured it was just an adjective of praise, like when you're at a sushi place, and you don't want to spring for the O Toro, but the Chu Toro is enough cheaper that you figure you'll give it a whirl.

 

[naader]

Ok so how is a nagura defined? I know how it translates, but how does a stone get to be called a bench nagura rather than a bench stone?

The "just part of the nomenclature" angle makes some sense: Tsuchimas are normally small nagura, so we'll call this huge one a bench nagura. Like that?

Any stone hounds out there with the main line? May I rope in @naader or @nutmeg or @Forty Ounce or @Badgertooth?maybe @osakajoe if I'm lucky. I can't go into the new year ignorant, it just wouldn't be right

The story goes that there was a guy named Nagura Sakonzo some 700 years ago in Aichi prefecture. He was up in the mountains hunting and sharpened some arrowheads and his hunting knife on white tuff stone he found up there. He really liked it and started bringing them down from the mountain and they quickly gained popularity, especially with the sword crowd in the coming centuries. They were named after him/his village.

Long story short, Nagura are a type of volcanic tuff stone from Aichi prefecture. People also call those little nuggets of kyoto stones used for razors "tomo nagura" but I have no idea how that naming came to pass cause I'm not really a razor guy lol.

 

[refcast]

I'll maybe try to find some info online in japanese

I think naader has it spot on though

 

[naader]

I don't know the answer either, but I do know that the chu nagura I bought from a member here is a remarkable dispenser of excellent toothy-keen kitchen knife edges. So I guess it's a category one can't just ignore.

I think chu is just sword polisher vocabulary for anything that isn't koma. There's massive range for chu nagura. I've got stuff coarse as aizu and others close to mid range kyoto finishers.

 

[naader]

I'm just guessing here, but I think it has to do with, like you said, the stones normally being small and primarily used as correcting stones. Could just be atypical for them to be bench size and are still referred to as nagura.

Full size nagura have been used for sword polishing for 200+ years.

 

[cotedupy]

I don't know why this bugs me. I gather I may be the only one

You were/are not the only one!

(I didn't know that they were supposedly named after a person before reading this thread just now. And had previously always wondered about the exact use of the term.)

 

[Skylar303]

From my understanding... FWIW...

Nagura like one mentioned is a certain type of volcanic layer. From achi-pref. Can be small slurry or bigger chunks usually used for swords.

Not sure of the deep history so that was interesting. But as of now Asanso is the only company producing "Authentic" Nagura. (Little stamped ones) I believe Asano is the owners name?

Tomo nagura is sort of an umbrella term, but it's usual meaning "tomo" the same, "nagura" slurry or correcting stone. So "tomo nagura" is usually a nagura stone cut off the Same base/bench stone. But, I see them marketed as "tomo nagura" that are just random junk cut offs. So then again falls under the "umbrella term"...

The Chu bench would most likely be used by a sword sharpener in progression. But as you said the SRs crowd has leaned towards bench sizes as well. But usually finer layers. I think Chu is mid/'pre finish' - range?

I'm not exactly sure of all the nagura types. But what I can remember... Ban, Yae-Botan, Atsu, Chu, Botan, Tenjyou, Mejiro, Koma. Then Tsushima which I don't think usually fall into the sword progression and aren't in the "normal" 3-4 nagura stone progression with SRs.

My interpretation of it anyways... I maybe wrong here or there, so feel free to correct me anyone.