What wine are you collecting?

[agp]

For oenophiles, what wine are you collecting? What's the next frontier for collectable wines?

 

[Rangen]

For oenophiles, what wine are you collecting? What's the next frontier for collectable wines?

What is collectible wine? I know how to buy it, cellar it, and drink it.

Are you asking what is likely to increase in price next? In my experience, it's stuff I really really liked back when I could afford it. If you want an example, OK, the basic cuvee of Clos Rougeard for $40/bottle. Just look at it now.

 

[agp]

To me collectible wine is wine you buy but are reluctant to drink.
How long ago was Clos Rougeard $40/bottle?

 

[Rangen]

To me collectible wine is wine you buy but are reluctant to drink.
How long ago was Clos Rougeard $40/bottle?

20-25 years ago, at a guess. It crept up for years, but it was the 2010 vintage when things just went nuts.

By your definition, a bunch of my wine became collectible when I wasn't paying attention. It sounds like a good problem to have, but I was hoping to just drink the stuff, not think about how much it is worth now.

 

[sumis]

personally i don’t project saving bottles for more than 5–7 years. i’m not in my twenties, and buy to (eventually) drink. with that said, i’d bet on some of the more popular ‘natural’ producers, who makes wine that actually develops favorably over time. well known stuff like cornelissen, occhipinti, la stoppa, tschida … makers like gut oggau, l’octavin i believe will be traded for quite some money in the future regardless if they age well or not.

i’m far too thirsty myself to see wine as an investment. even though french classics and piemonte probably still are a far better way to save money than in the bank or exchange market.

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[Choppin]

Oh yes, the long list of wines I used to afford but now are far beyond my reach... don't even like thinking about it, haha.

Like sumis, I usually collect with a similar time frame in mind: 5-7 years, maybe 10 for a few selected bottles. My favorites are natural (or biodynamic, lutte raisonne... I'm happy with anything low intervention) bottles that reap some new expression within that time frame.

Just to name a few favorites:

- Beaujolais red (Foillard & gang, also younger producers)
- Rhone red (used to be JM Stephan but it's kinda pricey right now... Pierre Gonon is incredible)
- Burgundy (1er cru or "1er cru level" village from reasonably priced producers)
- Jura (mostly whites, still have some old Overnoy stashed)
- Chenin blanc and riesling (two grapes that gain immensely with some age... so many good producers here)

 

[Choppin]

Not so long ago I had a much less practical approach to collecting wine - climate controlled storage for ˜500 bottles in my apartment and plans to keep some wines until my retirement. It was just too impractical and expensive (not only $ for wine but electrical bills, maintenance, moving apartments, etc).

If I lived in rural France with underground passive cellaring we would be having a very different conversation right now. @milangravier looking for a roommate?

 

[milangravier]

My 70m2 cellar is waiting for you my friend ! As soon as I can access to the wine of course

 

[Choppin]

My 70m2 cellar is waiting for you my friend ! As soon as I can access to the wine of course

haha sounds like a good deal!

 

[KJDedge]

Beaujolais by foillard, bouland, etc are making incredible cellar worthy wines that are still reasonable…best value in French wine IMO…
Good years of southern and northern Rhône’s are great to cellar and collect….
Bordeaux… what great values are appearing… putting Napa quality and prices to shame….
Sicilian reds are coming on STRONG as well..

High end collecting burgs, 1st gr Bordeaux, top echelon Rhône are out of my price range…

 

[agp]

Isn't beaujolais best when young?

 

[sumis]

Isn't beaujolais best when young?

no no no !

or, well, yes … as far as popular/old knowledge goes – beaujolais nouveau, etc.

but beaujolais also produces fantastic fuller bodied, great cellar worthy wines that are amazing bang for the buck – especially considering what you have to pay for bottles just stone's throw north of beaujolais these days …

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[Cliff]

Just had a 2009 J.-P. Brun Morgon with dinner the other day. Definitely still going strong.

 

[sumis]

Just had a 2009 J.-P. Brun Morgon with dinner the other day. Definitely still going strong.

nice.

i had one last week – albeit quit a bit younger. five of its siblings are tucked in for later consumption though.

.

 

[Hockey3081]

Anyone have any recommendations for Vouvrays?

 

[Rangen]

Anyone have any recommendations for Vouvrays?

Huet, every time.

 

[Hockey3081]

Huet, every time.

Thank you! I think there is a specialty shop near me that has them. I had bought a few Domaine du Viking bottles a few years ago but cannot find it anywhere now.

 

[Cliff]

Huet, every time.

Huet is one of the great producers in the world, but do not overlook Foreau. I enjoy them just as much.

 

[Choppin]

Isn't beaujolais best when young?

Morgon from top producers can age beautifully. I had some aged Fleurie (5-7 years) that were very nice as well.

 

[Cliff]

I'm still working on my 2005 Coudert Tardive. Most Beaujolais, like wines from most areas, is not so great. But the great ones are lovely and age well. I love my favorites around 12-15 years after the vintage, depending on the vintage. I still debate myself whether I prefer wines like Foillard young or older, but it's a question of preference. Others, like Coudert, are definitely better with some age.

ETA, Foillard's 3.15 is another matter, too, in terms of growing with time in bottle.

 

[cotedupy]

The two producers I have by far the most of are Foillard (can you tell? ), and Ganevat. Which I've been buying every year for about the last 15 or so.

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Generally the rule of buying producer rather than region is good. This list could probably be 100 long, but here are a few off the top of my head:

Montenidoli - Elisabetta Fagiouli's Vernaccias are among Italy's great white wines.

Produttori del Barbaresco - A lot of Babaresco is underpriced, Produttori's wines extraordinarily so.

Huet - Deserves the reputation.

Prieure St Christophe - Michel Grisard retired in 2015, but his wines should still be available if you look around. Astonishing Mondeuse.

Recaredo - The best sparkling wines in the world. By a distance.

Valentini - Can you call a $150 Trebbiano 'good value'? You can once you've tasted it.

Domaine de la Grand Couer & Yvon Metras - Two good friends and legendary Fleurie vignerons. When they're good the wines are utterly ethereal.

Max Breton - Consistently amazing.

Lapierre - Matthieu and Camille's wines are as good as their father's. The regular Morgon is probably the best value wine in Beaujolais. ‘N’ if you can get it.

Tempier & Terrebrune - My personal favourites from a region that's as good and ageworthy as any in France. You could pick from any of the other top Bandol producers and be happy too.

Pliger - The Riesling in particular.

Nino Barracco - Gorgeous, saline expressions of Sicilian sun and sea.

Gravner - Much imitated, never equalled.

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And some other more general recommendations:

Sherry - No secret that sherry is the screaming bargain of fine wine, but less well known is that it can age very nicely in bottle. And an increasing number of producers are using driven corks. Montilla too.

Marsala - Good Marsala is just wonderful. Marco de Bartoli is next level.

Etna - Both Reds and Whites have extraordinary ageing potential.

N. Rhone - Serious wines and still comparatively underpriced. Chave is majestic.

English Sparkling Wine - Already better quality and value than champagne at the same price. And the Champennois know it, they’ve been buying up vineyards here for years.

Loire Cabernet Franc - Remains mysteriously cheap, and keeps forever.

 

[cotedupy]

Also worth a look...

Burgundy - A large region just to the north of the Beaujolais, producing wines of variable quality. Though at their best can approach those of the ten Crus.

 

[Cliff]

Sherry remains probably the single most under-priced great region.

Could not agree more about the Produttori and Huet.

In Bandol, I like Pradeaux as well.

The Baudries do beautiful work in Chinon

I've been cellaring Marc Olivier's Muscadets since the early 00's.

 

[cotedupy]

I've been cellaring Marc Olivier's Muscadets since the early 00's

Ssssshhhhhhhhh. Don’t tell anyone. Dem's da rulez!

How could I forget Muscadet and Pepiere?! The oldest I've had were a couple of bottles of '92 Clos des Briords, which a somm friend gave me a few years ago and were still pristine in every way. Unfortunately I'm less good at cellaring the wines myself, as they just seem to mysteriously evaporate. Very clever to have been keeping them for the last 20 years .

Luneau-Papin's higher cuvees I love as well.

 

[Cliff]

I do love LP as well. I think I still have a couple of magnums of 2004 Briords

 

[DamageInc]

Red

 

[Carl Kotte]

I’m now beginning to enjoy (i.e. open and like) the Piemonte wines I bought some eight years ago. Prices were pretty good back then.

Like the rest of you I enjoy Beaujolais, chateau thivin being my favorite. Otherwise always on the hunt for affordable Burgundy (not so lucky in that department, although I’ve had some luck with some producers from southern burgundy).

A few other guilty pleasures: spanish whites. Everything from fresh albarino (have had some great aged albarinos and godellos as well) to the awesome white riojas. White wine made from palomino is great If you can find it.

However, I recently discovered that what I enjoy the most is not too expensive around 10 year old bordeaux. White, red, murky and overpriced, I take them all.

 

[coxhaus]

I have a case of Round Pond Estate Louis Bovet 2019 that I plan to keep for a while. I am in Texas, and it is hard to store wine for long periods of time. A wine cooler is on my list. I don't want one unless it stores at least 250 bottles of wine. I have looked online, the size is holding me back as it needs to fit in my closet, I have in the utility room. The measurements are too close to call. I need to see one and put a tape to it. Hopefully one of these days it will happen.

Anybody know of a good wine cooler? It needs to be under 26 inches deep. Wide is no problem. Height, if I keep the light then under 76 inches and removing the light it will be around 82 inches. One temp is fine with me.

 

[sumis]

chateau thivin being my favorite.

kompis! yeah, i'm with you on that. i have four Cote de Brouilly Les Sept Vignes left from a couple of years ago that i will try to leave for a while. they are a steal imho.

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[Rangen]

I have a case of Round Pond Estate Louis Bovet 2019 that I plan to keep for a while. I am in Texas, and it is hard to store wine for long periods of time. A wine cooler is on my list. I don't want one unless it stores at least 250 bottles of wine. I have looked online, the size is holding me back as it needs to fit in my closet, I have in the utility room. The measurements are too close to call. I need to see one and put a tape to it. Hopefully one of these days it will happen.

Anybody know of a good wine cooler? It needs to be under 26 inches deep. Wide is no problem. Height, if I keep the light then under 76 inches and removing the light it will be around 82 inches. One temp is fine with me.

View attachment 202556

Just measured the 250 bottle one I got from Wine Enthusiast:

78 9/16" Height, including protruding hinge
31 1/2 Width
~31 1/2" Depth, including external cooling pipes, and 1 3/4" protruding door handle

A ~25 year old Eurocave 260 comes in right at 26" depth, if you don't count the door knob that protrudes 1 1/2" from the front.