What would improve my setup?

[coffeelover191919]

I'd get the Shapton pro 2000 for the VG10 and Masamoto.
I'd consider getting a Shapton glass 500 for chip repair and for getting rid of fatigued steel or sharpening really dull knives.

The vg 10 and Masamoto stainless can take and hold a more refined edge than the 1000 which is more like 800 grit, I think you would like the 2000 which is more like 2000+ grit, it will still be toothy but much more refined.

And you'll wish the 1k felt like the 2k.

I second the suggestion to get a ~2K stone, because some knives/steels perform better with a toothier edge. Personally I'd try to find a nice aoto or other mid-range natural, just because they're fun and a nice change in pace from the Shaptons

I have a very similar setup with SP 1k, 2k, 5k. I find myself often preferring the finish of the 2k over the 5k, even for harder Japanese knives. It definitely feels much better than a SP 1k finish on all of my knives.

Totally second the shapton pro 2k suggestion for the stainless. AS/Aoniko will happily go up to 5k (I finish both of these on a Rika 5k, and I have both a shapton pro 2k and naniwa 3k SS). But, of course, this might depend on your preference, technique, or particular knife - the beauty is, it doesn't cost anything to try it out and then form your own subjective opinion. You can usefully use the 2k in progression in any case.

Holy crap! I checked my old Amazon order. I bought the stone for $43. Now it's $81!

If you aren't in a hurry to get it, check out this site Shapton Professional Series J Model #2000 Green - JPY4,375 : Japan-Tool Online Shopping Cart

Stones right now, directly from Japan to Europe, are just crazy.

Since you have so many Shaptons, you might be interested in the Pro 2000 first, maybe Glass 3000. Other options would be Naniwa Professional 3000, Kramer 3000 if you find it at a decent price, Morihei 3000.

I kind of meant if you have it already...! Was assuming that, given you have a few stainless knives that would benefit from more than a shapton 1k, but that don't from a 5k, something in between is almost a no brainer. And the shapton pro 2k happens to be a very nice stone in any case.

FWIW, this is where I just got mine: Shapton Kuromaku Professional Ceramic Whetstone Green, 2000 Grit

ssible causes include:
1) Raising an uneven burr, so removing more metal from one part of the blade than another. Having said that if you have removed enough metal to change the profile, you may have not recognised that you had a burr and kept going far beyond what was needed.
2) Not following the curve of the blade. There are a few ways to do this but the way that Jon teaches in the JKI vids is a good one. It involes lifting the handle end of the knife up slightly at the same time as dropping the spine of the knife slightly as you approach the tip of the knife. Note that these 2 movements are in different planes. The more curve, the less sublte the movement.
Another way invloves setting the heel of the knife to your desired angle against the stone then maintaining that angle whilst you slide the edge of knife on the stone until the part of the knife that you want to sharpen (belly or tip) is on the stone. Depen

In terms of sharpening and edge refinement, I think it's good enough. Maybe add 1 stone between 2/3K stone, like Naniwa Hayabusa or SP2K.

In terms of going to polish or contrast on Cladding knife.... well, you might need to buy a softer stone that creates contrast or go to JNats rabbit hole.

Sorry that was a lot of quotes, but due to the overwhelming rec for the 2k stones and @OnionSlicer for the recommendation, just ordered the Shapton 2K.

I know everyone has their own technique, but for those who have a similar setup, whats your progression / instruction on getting your gyutos your perfect sharpness for food prep?

 

[M1k3]

If I'm sharpening from dull non-stainless, Glass 500, deburr, edge leading passes, raise burr on Glass 4k, deburr, edge leading passes to clean up burr followed by 2 passes on balsa strop with 1 micron diamond paste.

Butchery stuff will get Glass 500 and that's it.

 

[tostadas]

If it needs just a light touch up, I do light edge leading passes on the 2k, and finish with super light edge leading passes. If it feels more dull than that, I'll go edge leading on the 1k and debur on a strop before proceeding to the 2k.

 

[inferno]

many people think its no big difference between the shapton 1k and 2k pro. its only 1k right. well it is. the 1k is very coarse and aggressive stone. the 2k is just good enough to be called sharp. and it feels really nice for being a shapton.

and to be honest the 0,2-4k range is where all the action is anyway and its here where you can see differences between a 2k and a 3k. and so on.
8 to 12k?? not very a big difference. 6 to 8?? no, not really. 1 to 2, very big difference. 2 to 3, almost as big. 3 to 4 also big difference. and then above that you wont see that big jump when you step up a grit level. and then the actual maker and series starts to play into it.

but i sure notice a sharpness difference between the shapton glass 6k (gray) pro 8k and pro 12k. vs the 4k glass.

i dont know what difference i would notice between the stones if they were naniwa pro, shapton pro, glass, king, cerax, imanishi, etc etc of different grits. first and foremost they measure grit different. and then the binder will make a x grit stone behave like a y grit stone from this or that manufacturer.

but imo with the shaptons you get all business no fluff with all their stones and grits. they just cut. and they are also hard. so you feel whats going on. imo that is. ymmv.

i like having all grits from 220 to 4k. from several manufacturers and from a different series.
i'm mainly running shapton pro and glass (white), and naniwa pro, then some specific imanishi, superstones, king etc
i keep the ones i like. the rest i give away or sell.

n+1 is the right amount of stones to have!

 

[coffeelover191919]

So annoying.. Frendrihan.com ships from Canada. When the site is ".com" and their address is Florida on their website. Better not get stopped by customs..

 

[M1k3]

Yeah, it's going to customs. Fingers crossed it's not Chicago.

 

[coffeelover191919]

Yeah, it's going to customs. Fingers crossed it's not Chicago.

u guys think i'd get charged for this? If so how much?

 

[M1k3]

u guys think i'd get charged for this? If so how much?

Nope.

 

[daveb]

But, but, but, you saved 5 bucks!

 

[coffeelover191919]

But, but, but, you saved 5 bucks!

Yea i did save $5 bucks. Didnt know fendrihan would ship this from Canada. Set to be delivered tomorrow. Your point?

 

[coffeelover191919]

2k stone is coming tomorrow. Is this correct to sharpen a not dull knife:

Shapton 1000: form burr on 1 side, form burr on 2nd side, stropping strokes to remove the burr by doing 12 stropping stokes on each side, then 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1,1,1,1, lol

Shapton 2000: repeat same thing as above

Shapton 5000: stropping strokes alternating sides from 12, 10, 8,... 1etc.

Strop on leather with green compound

Strop on bare leather

Do shave test for Instagram (jk, no idea how to do that)

 

[M1k3]

2k stone is coming tomorrow. Is this correct to sharpen a not dull knife:

Shapton 1000: form burr on 1 side, form burr on 2nd side, stropping strokes to remove the burr by doing 12 stropping stokes on each side, then 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1,1,1,1, lol

Shapton 2000: repeat same thing as above

Shapton 5000: stropping strokes alternating sides from 12, 10, 8,... 1etc.

Strop on leather with green compound

Strop on bare leather

Do shave test for Instagram (jk, no idea how to do that)

Everyone has a little different method. I don't see anything that pops out at me. Got all your bases covered, especially the instagram shave video. Can't forget the important stuff.

 

[Carl Kotte]

As @M1k3 said, everyone Does it differently, and that plan looks good. But Here’s How I would do it. Shapton 1000: form burr on 1 side, form burr on 2nd side. Then start those stropping motions. The Numbers don’t matter. The important thing is to get rid of the burr. I usually start alternating immediately after I’ve formed the second burr. Then after a few passes I feel for any residual burr. Gently pull through some cork, wood, scotchbrite... and then more stropping strokes - edge leading. Do it until clean and sharp.
If you want a 5k edge go to 5k stone immediately (without 2k inbetween) and do some edge leading strokes. No need to raise a burr again.
If you want a 2k edge use that. No need to raise a burr.

 

[Nemo]

I tend to pick one stone from fine (and one from medium and, if required, coarse) for each knife. You don't need to stick to the 2x grit rule for kitchen knives (shaving is a different matter). You also don't need strops. Certainly not multiple strops. If you do strop, diamond in the range 0.25-3 um (some would say 1-5 um) work well for kitchen knives. Balsa works well as a stropping medium, as do cereal box cardboard (non shiny side) and Martell-grade rock hard felt.

If a knife is not blunt, I tend to do a touch-up with (only) the finest stone I will use. You will soon know if it needs a coarser stone- you won't get a burr quickly. I tend to drop down to a medium stone if I don't get a burr quickly. I tend to do a bit of thinning when I drop down to a medium stone. Very occasionally, you might need a coarse stone at the edge, once again incorporating a bit of thinning.

With your setup (which is different to mine), For a stainless knife, I might use the SP1K followed by SP2K (then stop) or possibly jump straight to SP5K for certain types of stainless (maybe well HT'd G3 or AEBL). For semistainless and carbon, I'd use 1k then 5k.

Western stainless (Wustoff, Victorinox, Messermeiter, etc) is a different matter. Won't maintain much of a polish due to coarse grain. Use a coarse stone followed by deburring on a medium (~1k) stone.

Hope this helps.

 

[kayman67]

2k stone is coming tomorrow. Is this correct to sharpen a not dull knife:

Shapton 1000: form burr on 1 side, form burr on 2nd side, stropping strokes to remove the burr by doing 12 stropping stokes on each side, then 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1,1,1,1, lol

Shapton 2000: repeat same thing as above

Shapton 5000: stropping strokes alternating sides from 12, 10, 8,... 1etc.

Strop on leather with green compound

Strop on bare leather

Do shave test for Instagram (jk, no idea how to do that)

Could work. But I wouldn't.

First, a good edge will form once the old beaten alloy is removed. This means it can take more than raising a burr on one side and the other and move on, because you might find yourself with a bad edge later on and have no idea why. Don't sharpen like it's just a mechanical thing to apply to every knife exactly the same way. It's not. And usually you stay a bit longer on the coarser stone. That's where you sharpen. Don't consider fixing it with later grits.
The stropping I would just forget and train myself to use edge leading passes (that I would not call stropping). The progression would be good for practice, so why not.
Definitely could do more than just "not stropping" on the 5000. But if that's all you desire, go edge leading. You will eventually thank me.
While I have every oxide you could imagine from pretty much all important manufacturers, these days you might want to use diamond or cbn (diamond will offer a more aggressive edge, cbn will polish considerably more) as they will perform better with a lot more alloys.
Just leather is not necessarily needed even for razors, but with kitchen knives I would say is just waste of time and money. My guess is that you will stop using it on your own at some point.

About cutting.
Paper - will tell you just how the edge feels, how clean it is and so on. It's not about cutting paper. That's just waste.
Hair - will tell you if you have a working apex and the knife should be able to shave effortlessly after the first stone.
Tomato - since some people struggle with the tomato, this got into testing as well. The edge should grab the skin right away without pushing.

That's pretty much it.

 

[OnionSlicer]

Dropping all strops from progression, loaded or unloaded, and learning to properly deburr on stones with light edge leading strokes was one of the best improvements for my sharpening.

 

[coffeelover191919]

thx all for the tips! Will form a burr on both sides with the SP1K. Will do some edge leading strokes to stop on the 2k or 5k stone to finish.

Question.. why is it that i do edge trailing strokes on the 5k, then stop, and my knife feels dull after? I'd have to confirm if it is actually dull, or if its the lack of "teeth" on the edge that i don't feel.

 

[M1k3]

thx all for the tips! Will form a burr on both sides with the SP1K. Will do some edge leading strokes to stop on the 2k or 5k stone to finish.

Question.. why is it that i do edge trailing strokes on the 5k, then stop, and my knife feels dull after? I'd have to confirm if it is actually dull, or if its the lack of "teeth" on the edge that i don't feel.

Is it sharp after the 5k but not after the strop? Or sharp before the 5k and not after?

 

[tostadas]

thx all for the tips! Will form a burr on both sides with the SP1K. Will do some edge leading strokes to stop on the 2k or 5k stone to finish.

Question.. why is it that i do edge trailing strokes on the 5k, then stop, and my knife feels dull after? I'd have to confirm if it is actually dull, or if its the lack of "teeth" on the edge that i don't feel.

Make sure the stone is clean before doing your final strokes. Sometimes the little grit from sharpening may "dull" the edge slightly when doing the edge leading passes.

Also, depending on the knife you use, your results may vary. When I tried to put a 5k edge on one of my brother's cheap stainless, I could not get it to stay, no matter what I tried.

 

[Carl Kotte]

Edge leading strokes can be hard if you’re not used to them. I’ve killed several edges with edge leading strokes... it took some time to learn to be consistent (and I don’t fully master it... far from it) maintaining the same angle. So there might be several things; you might have a bit of burr left. You might have changed angles or wobbled, or in some way or other rounded the edge. You might have used too much pressure.
Or, you’ve done everything right, but the three finger test doesn’t help you detecting the sharpness because the edge is so keen.
I think there are some good sources about trouble shooting here on KKF. Search the archives! And Good luck!

 

[coffeelover191919]

Is it sharp after the 5k but not after the strop? Or sharp before the 5k and not after?

Will do some sharpening next week and report back so i have a fresh answer in my mind. Maybe... its so sharp that i don't feel it as i slowly slice the knife across my fingertips?

Make sure the stone is clean before doing your final strokes. Sometimes the little grit from sharpening may "dull" the edge slightly when doing the edge leading passes.

Also, depending on the knife you use, your results may vary. When I tried to put a 5k edge on one of my brother's cheap stainless, I could not get it to stay, no matter what I tried.

Would soaking and rubbing a "stone fixer" for 30 seconds on it clean it out good? i have this one here: Tsukiji Masamoto Stone Fixer

 

[Carl Kotte]

Oh, and never slide a knife over nails and fingertips! If you use your nail to check for sharpness, just place the edge very very lightly on your nail. If it digs in, that’s often a good sign. Don’t slide, don’t push!

 

[M1k3]

Will do some sharpening next week and report back so i have a fresh answer in my mind. Maybe... its so sharp that i don't feel it as i slowly slice the knife across my fingertips?


Would soaking and rubbing a "stone fixer" for 30 seconds on it clean it out good? i have this one here: Tsukiji Masamoto Stone Fixer

I just run the stone under water and wipe with my hands. Even if there's some left over swarf/loading, it's ok. You don't want lose grit/contamination.

Oh, and never slide a knife over nails and fingertips! If you use your nail to check for sharpness, just place the edge very very lightly on your nail. If it digs in, that’s often a good sign. Don’t slide, don’t push!

I like the nail test. The trick is to TRY to slide it across your nail, not actually slide it across. If you have no real resistance, you have no bite or an edge that's not keen/sharp.

 

[tostadas]

Would soaking and rubbing a "stone fixer" for 30 seconds on it clean it out good? i have this one here: Tsukiji Masamoto Stone Fixer

I meant just rinse off the mud

 

[coffeelover191919]

And the family grows! I knew I shouldn't of joined this damn forum. It's literally a never ending hole. Now I need another knife to sharpen.

I need to get better at sharpening the belly of knives. Worried about just making it flat. Also need to practice edge leadong strokes.

I do like the 2k edge. Is that what most people finish on with just that little bit of bite left?