What would you finish henckels at?

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Pie

you.. you got any more of them rocks?
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I got a solid 10 or so of these things to do. They’re not trashed but I gotta eat the stock edge grind, trying to get away with starting at 400.

There’s one man and two man henckels in there, how high would you guys go for either?
 
400 and a loaded strop is my go to for softer stainless these days
Yeeeeeeee let’s do this
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Are those 2 man ones any harder or worth going finer?
 
All passer-by knives get the same Shapton Pro 320/2K.

That’s just what I got
 
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Ever since reading Kraichuk on deburring I have been taking even cheap SS to as high an edge as time allows. 220/500 for the main bevel, 4k/8k/16k for the apex (micro-)bevel.

Myth – Coarse “toothy” edge cuts better
The “micro-serrations” concept contributes to the confusion as people tend to mistakenly generalize properties of the serrated edge onto the microscopic level of a ragged coarse edge. The saw teeth and the edge ragged by a coarse abrasive are not the same. This myth about blades having "teeth" formed by the "scratches" on the bevel just won't die. Coarse scratches do not create "teeth" on the apex. In the edge sharpened coarse, the high spots are mostly burrs and the low spots are mostly chips far wider than any given scratch; after deburring you get an irregular apex riddled with flaws. A knife edge sharpened to rougher finishes will have larger scratches than a finely honed edge, and these scratches can be thought of as pre-existing flaws; the sub-surface damage is also more pronounced and extended. A coarser edge does “bite” initially, however the knife dulls faster as the “teeth” get broken off, and as the edge chipping develops along those flaws. The following SEM micrographs of a coarse “toothy” edge show the scratches. The metal near and below each scratch is damaged, e.g. damaged area from the grit 200 extends to 4 microns below the surface in hardened steel. This damaged metal must be honed away with finer grits, because if you leave it coarse, as you start cutting, the load will ruin the edge over the damaged areas, as shown on the following edge-on SEM. (By courtesy of Sandvik) Thoroughly done studies have shown that the coarse finish is associated with increased grip force, cutting effort and cutting time, and worse edge retention. In precise cutting and carving unpolished bevels cause traction in cuts and lower accuracy and quality of cut. Meat plants are well aware that knives with coarse edges worsen product presentation and increase operators’ fatigue and repetitive strain injuries. On the contrary, polished edges improve product quality through higher value cuts and increase throughput. Premium wear-resistant knife steels are plainly incompatible with unpolished edge, as explained later in our book in the chapter on high-end knives.
Fine grits are used to better the edge retention, and to improve the edge finish for effortless cutting, but not the sharpness as such; a more refined edge holds up better because it is cleaned of metal stressed by grinding.
 
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Ever since reading Kraichuk on deburring I have been taking even cheap SS to as high an edge as time allows. 220/500 for the main bevel, 4k/8k/16k for the apex (micro-)bevel.
I am no sharpening expert, but how do you balance that with higher grit edges having issues with waxy products like bell peppers? I once had issues slicing through bell peppers with a 5k edge, which largely subsided after dropping back down to 1-2k
 
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For soft stainless I like SG500 + strop. I've also taken it up to 2k. I guess it just depends what you're looking for. The 2man ones I've used feel to be somewhere in the mid 50s HRC. I haven't tried the single man ones.
 
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I once had issues slicing through bell peppers with a 5k edge, which largely subsided after dropping back down to 1-2k
I have no theory for this but I do remember seeing a post a while back about how there’s a valley in tomato performance around 2–4k that recovers at higher grits 8–16k so maybe push through and see if it improves? I know this goes against conventional wisdom that lower is better for tomatoes.

I also always found SP5K to be able to give a magical "ghosting effect" to an edge, but not one that would perform with waxy skins ever so well.
Honestly when I run into inexplicable performance issues I assume I haven’t apexed / deburred properly. Maybe a burr that rounded over.
 
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Ever since reading Kraichuk on deburring I have been taking even cheap SS to as high an edge as time allows. 220/500 for the main bevel, 4k/8k/16k for the apex (micro-)bevel.

I can certainly agree that a high polished edge can be fine on waxy skins, initially.

We are talking soft stainless here. I don't see the article mention 'good' or 'bad' steel for their theory.
The knife certainly feels and is sharper at 8000 then at 1000. The thing is, after a very short time the soft stainless at 8000 won't cut waxy skins anymore. The edge feels slick when dragging on your nail. Then you are simply better off with a coarser edge, hiding the fact that these kinda steel won't hold a high polished edge.

Another thing for me is, these soft steel get honed with a rod a lot. Most standard rods are coarse.
So when I finish a Wusthof or Zwlling highly polished, the user takes his rod after a few meals and the polished effect is done for.

When you are talking the brandless <5,- for a chefsknife stuff, it gets even worse. 2 home meels and the edge is done for when highly polished.
 
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My Henkels, I'll take to the Rika 5K to finish. Not because of the edge but the Rika leaves a nice shiny edge on the German stainless.

Your Henkels, depending on time and your usage, I'll quit after Shapton 500, may go to Bestor 1200 or Shapton 2K
 
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I use belts. But leather stropping with green compound makes my Henckels smoother when cutting. I test slicing tomatoes, cherries are fine. It should slice the skin easily. I have used all my belts or just a few and it does not matter with cutting tomatoes. Using more belts makes it smoother cutting.

I am not sure how the belts cross to grits. I only use the extra coarse grit if I am putting an angle of 15 degrees on the first time. The Ken Onion is good at holding an angle. If I do the extra fine, it is 1 light pass. Then I strop.

All my Henckels are 4-star or 5-star knives. I do the same thing with my Wusthof Classic knives.

From what I have found is 20 degrees will work but not as good as 15 degrees. I used 17.5 degrees when I first started, and it works better than 20 degrees also.
I have a big Henckels 11.5-inch chef's knife that still has 20 degrees on it as I use it for cutting through chicken bones when I cut up chickens.
I can tell you my salmon knife cut fish badly until I sharpened it at 15 degrees. New it cut well and then I sharpened it at 20 degrees, and it would not work for me. I then sharpened it at 15 degrees, and it worked well again.

I do not hone with a steel rod. After watching the video of the guy slicing tomatoes using a ceramic rod, I may try to buy one of those. Does anybody know what sharpening rod he is using on the video?
 
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Heck yeah. Thanks for all the replies guys. They’re for a multiple friends of a friend, I should be happy there’s nothing from the dollar store or ikea in there.

400 + strop looks like the winner! Looks like every one of them is a first sharpening so expectations can’t be that high right? As little as it matters to the end user, I like to record what it’s finished on for feedback purposes. Maybe trying to open a sharpening door in their brains.

Re: the grits 5k and over, if I do it honestly it would be for the aesthetics. I’ll take the whole exercise as bevel setting practice 🙂.
 
Heck yeah. Thanks for all the replies guys. They’re for a multiple friends of a friend, I should be happy there’s nothing from the dollar store or ikea in there.

400 + strop looks like the winner! Looks like every one of them is a first sharpening so expectations can’t be that high right? As little as it matters to the end user, I like to record what it’s finished on for feedback purposes. Maybe trying to open a sharpening door in their brains.

Re: the grits 5k and over, if I do it honestly it would be for the aesthetics. I’ll take the whole exercise as bevel setting practice 🙂.
I believe the older Henckels were sharpened at 20 degrees. Nowadays they are using 15 degrees. If you are sharpening on a stone by feel of the edge you might want to check the angle and change it if it is an older knife.
 
I believe the older Henckels were sharpened at 20 degrees. Nowadays they are using 15 degrees. If you are sharpening on a stone by feel of the edge you might want to check the angle and change it if it is an older knife.
I would rather change it if it is a new one, if the same happened with Henckels as with Wüsthof and Burgvogel. The old ones were man-made convex edges ending at some 20°, the new one machine made V-edges at a lower angle than the steel holds. Anyway, ease the protruding shoulders.
 
I often stop refining the edge at a chosera 800, but then do several deburring strokes on something like a bbw or black ark, or something else in the 4-8k range. Then several strokes per side in my hand (or i guess you could use some other leather 🤪). I just don't find that jumping from something coarse, like a 400, to a strop consistently gives a clean apex that's free of burr.

Also, i find that the bevel angle is regularly inconsistent, with more obtuse angles right near the heel and over grinds just before the tip being rather common.
 
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The NP400 corresponds to a JIS 600, at least. Very well possible to completely deburr with really short, light, edge leading strokes in sections.
 
I would rather change it if it is a new one, if the same happened with Henckels as with Wüsthof and Burgvogel. The old ones were man-made convex edges ending at some 20°, the new one machine made V-edges at a lower angle than the steel holds. Anyway, ease the protruding shoulders.
My question is do you use Henckels knives?

I think you are asking for a lot of work to thin one so you can use it at a higher angle. It sure is a lot easier to use 15 degrees angle and not thin the knife. Have you tried it?

I use a Henckel knife almost every day at home cooking. I have changed the angle on almost every Henckels knife I own. And the Henckels salmon knife skins and cuts fish like crap at 20 degrees. I would not use it at 20 degrees. It set in my knife block for almost a year before I sharpened it at 15 degrees and realized it worked great again. I had already bought a Wusthof sushi knife to use. This is what Wusthof called it. I know better now. This was all before I knew about this forum.
 
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To be honest I don’t use these kind of knives.. maybe for smashing a pumpkin or something but I gave mine away.

The grinds on these things are wild, angle changes heavy through the tip and heel, I’m probably landing somewhere between 15-20, it’s just so ugly with how thick they are bte. I’m definitely not exact, more so going by feel and creating a nice fat convex.

My biggest concern is they’re gonna cut dense product like crap. Better than before but there’s no way I’m full thinning and refinishing these l.
 
The grinds on these things are wild, angle changes heavy through the tip and heel, I’m probably landing somewhere between 15-20, it’s just so ugly with how thick they are bte. I’m definitely not exact, more so going by feel and creating a nice fat convex.
All the Henckels knives I have bought new have cut fine. Even my salmon knife cut fine new. I used it for a year before I thought I needed to sharpen it. It was not until I sharpened it at 20 degrees that it would not skin and cut fish well. Then sharpening it at 15 degrees made it work well again.

I have not seen your issues with wild angle changes from tip to heel. And sharpening using a Worksharp Ken Onion I get a more precisely defined angle than doing it by hand as it has a template to hold the knife angle especially for long knives like 10 inches.

And Oh, I would take any Henckels 4-star or 5-star knives you would like to give away. I am not interested in lower line Henckels. I have my limits also.
 
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I do not hone with a steel rod. After watching the video of the guy slicing tomatoes using a ceramic rod, I may try to buy one of those. Does anybody know what sharpening rod he is using on the video?


It's one of these:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MXNV7LY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I have that one and also this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002YK1RAQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
When I'm being lazy (my default state) they'll put a very nice edge back on a knife that needs touching up. The Messermeister alone is also good for German steel.

They make good gifts for people who want sharp knives but aren't ready to commit to stones yet.
 
They make good gifts for people who want sharp knives but aren't ready to commit to stones yet.
Use of ceramic rods supposes a good understanding of sharpening basics, especially where deburring is concerned. Otherwise the obtained edges will have a very short life.
 
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