whats the verdict on zdp?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by inferno, May 10, 2019.

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  1. Dec 5, 2019 #31

    NO ChoP!

    NO ChoP!

    NO ChoP!

    Old Head

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    It's so pricey that most relegate it as a drawer queen, or special occasion knife.

    This is counterintuitive as its edge retention make it a great daily beater.

    I find it holds that infinite 100% sharp for a short bit, then holds at 80% for seemingly ever.

    I had a Zwilling Twin Cermax that was always, always pretty sharp, never scary sharp.
     
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  2. Dec 5, 2019 #32

    captaincaed

    captaincaed

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    My Sukenari will still pop hairs, but doesn't shave so to speak. Cuts everything, but doesn't have that scary bite into the finger pads feeling. I bought it a year ago and haven't found a reason to sharpen it yet. Definitely a unique aging process.
     
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  3. Dec 9, 2019 #33

    GorillaGrunt

    GorillaGrunt

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    I like mine - I never found it hard to sharpen once I figured out which stones to use and which wouldn’t do the job. I had the same Sukenari in ZDP, Hap40, and YXR7 and pretty quickly chose ZDP as the keeper; I’ve seen a few other posts from people reaching the same conclusion. The edge is really grabby like SLD, which is part of why I stuck with that one.

    That said none of the exotic steels have given me edge retention to the point where I don’t have to touch up after work - it’s still sharper than another steel might be, but it’s not like a fresh edge, so I’m not sure that I need or want these.
     
  4. Dec 9, 2019 #34

    Luftmensch

    Luftmensch

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    Not so... The daily 'beaters' in my house are ZDP. I have a Gihei 150mm petty, 180mm santoku and a 210mm gyuto. Sure, they are pricey but not stratospherically so. I would peg them as an upper-mid priced knife (I recognise everybody's scale is different).

    They are semi stainless so you don't need to freak out about keeping them spotless. And as mentioned... they are hard wearing. They remain functionally sharp in a household kitchen for a long... long... long time. Sure you could sharpen them more often to keep them screaming, but if the food preparation does not call for it - then you can save yourself some labour.

    I find that sharpening is not any more difficult but it takes a little longer. For me one point of difference is the bur. Compared to 'simple' carbon steel, I dont chase a bur. I just test the edge with my finger nails and thumb pad. It is probably a function of my sharpening style but I don't find I can produce a bur on ZDP easily... But I also find that I don't need to. Paying attention to the edge and a thoughtful grit progression brings the edge up to a point where I can cleanly slice through delicate foods.

    Now thinning... it is a pain in the ass. In general thinning can be a lot of work but ZDP makes a tough job harder. I wanted to thin my knives a month ago. I spent far too long (and far too much stone) thinning the petty. Given how slow and exhausting that process was, I did the base work of the santoku on a belt sander and finished the job on stones. I am yet to attack the gyuto...


    It is a good choice if you want to extend the time between edge refreshes (for example a non-obsessive home cook). But like @GorillaGrunt says, if you are going to touch up the edge at the end of each shift... the edge retention properties are probably moot. Choose a steel that is more pleasurable to sharpen.
     
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  5. Dec 9, 2019 #35

    captaincaed

    captaincaed

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    Which stones did you have good/bad luck with for your ZDP?
     
  6. Dec 9, 2019 #36

    captaincaed

    captaincaed

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    Anyone noticed any significant differences based on board type? I know restaurant poly sucks, but does it suck more/less for different steels?
     
  7. Dec 9, 2019 #37

    Keith Sinclair

    Keith Sinclair

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    Poly boards are hard on edges of all steels with massive amounts of prep. That is why ease of sharpening & touchups is important. Thin grinds last longer say dicing 25# of tomatoes for lomi salmon. Grind is important thin edged blades are duck soup to touch up too.
     
  8. Dec 9, 2019 #38

    GorillaGrunt

    GorillaGrunt

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    King Hyper 1k, Gesshin 3k, Maido 7k
     
  9. Dec 9, 2019 #39

    captaincaed

    captaincaed

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    Sweet, thanks!
    What didn't work? I'm sitting on Gesshin 220, 2k, synthetic natural. Also Togiharu 1k/4k and Naniwa?( Knifewear) 8k
     
  10. Dec 10, 2019 #40

    Luftmensch

    Luftmensch

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    I don't think it is such a 'super steel' that it would pose a problem to any decent quality synthetic.

    For what it is worth, I use chosera stones - but do not have any other point of comparison. They work!
     
  11. Dec 10, 2019 #41

    Luftmensch

    Luftmensch

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    Ceteris paribus... :p

    No... I haven't tested different boards. But it would be reasonable to apply theory and say harder wearing blades will last longer on hard cutting boards. Whether the difference is enough to warrant a change in steel is up for debate. If I knew I was going to be sharpening once a day or more, I'd choose simple carbon steel...

    Exactly!

    This is part of the reason I wanted to thin my ZDP. Sure it can make the cut smoother but it makes sharpening a breeze.
     
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  12. Dec 10, 2019 #42

    Luftmensch

    Luftmensch

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    Just for fun....

    A word on Gihei... They are a basic looking knife. You don't pay for exotic or perfect looks. And the fit and finish is only average. The handles are simple and well fit but the primary bevel grind was pretty wavy. The primary bevel up to the 'shinogi' line came sandblasted to emulate a kasumi finish. This hid the wavy bevel a little. It in no way affects the function of the knife. If you dont care or are willing to fix it yourself, it is no problem whatsoever. Take this experience with some caution. Mine are four years old - so perhaps the process has changed since.

    Here is my Gihei santoku:

    gihei.jpg

    This is after a little work. Several rounds of thinning. One on the belt sander. The primary bevel is now more uniform and thinner. The kasumi is done on a Jnat and brushed finish is re-done with (600 or 800) wet and dry. I originally tried a zero grind. It was micro-chippy so I put a secondary bevel on there. You can see it - that light line following the egde. It is easy to sharpen since the surface area is so small.

    Here is the choil (not perfectly symmetric... but it is exaggerated by the magnification):


    gihei_choil.jpg


    and measurements in millimetres (again... after modification):



    dimensions.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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