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Whats wrong with all of you? (Thread will close 7-1)

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Chef Niloc

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Been crazy busy opening the new place so I did not notice Adam Water crawler popped in here. I have been asked to keep this in the OT room and I will. I think someone needs to address this B.S.
I'm Quite frankly A little shocked you (Adam) had the nerve to come over here but even more dumbfounded at all the warm welcomes. You F'ed Dave over for the "gang", banned him, and tried to sweep the whole thing under the mat. On top of that You banned me and others for speaking my/ our minds, deleted my/ others post's, let's see if Dave does the same to me for this one? Then you show up here on the board Dave created because you and others screw him over, mostly you B/C you were his friend. You "missed your old friends" you say, should have thought about that before you $hit on us. I still have the PM's from you and Mike the F-nut Steward, I shared them with some of you all here guess you all forgot? To refresh memories Mike, and to be fare I don't know if he acted on his own or not but would be surprised if all the Mod's over there were not aware; unleashed a self admitted (in a email to my un-posted email account) Smear campaign on me. He him self and others he got wrought all sorts of B.S. "food sucks", "got food poisoning" $hit about me and the restaurant I worked at on Zagats and other food blogs. Unknown to them i had already left there, but thats not the point. That's also the mane/ only reason I have not publicly posted were the true location of my new restaurant is is, had to learn the hard way that these forums are not safe and that there are some sick and twisted people on these boards. I hold you Adam responsible as you let the whole thing turn into the mess it did by "staying out of it" and " not taking sides".
 

oivind_dahle

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I thought it was MadRookie that tried to blackmail Dave, and that was the beginning to the whole $hit?

Can anyone please enlighten me on what happened. What does Mark @ CKTG to do with it and precise sharpening?
I can keep track of who did what :(

If Dave got banned by Adam, they seems to be ok now. Adam is here. I know Madrookie tried to join, but he was banned after his first post
 

rockbox

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Colin,

Do we really have to relive this "90210" episode all over again? A lot of people did and said things that they were not proud of and most of us are over it. If it weren't for those events, this cool place wouldn't be here, and this is a much better place than KF ever was. If you still have a beef with Adam, then you should discuss it with him privately. I'm not trying to defend anyone, I don't know every fact to do so. I just think its time to heal our wounds.

As for Mike Stewart, I can't believe he tried to do that crap to you. I've never like him or his "gizmo" quality products. His success just demonstrates how many ignorant knife owners there are out there. I can't believe I got suckered into buying one from him.
 

watercrawl

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Edited and deleted:

It's not worth the fight Colin. I'm sorry you're so upset.

I'm trying to mend old friendships.
 

watercrawl

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I still have the PM's from you and Mike the F-nut Steward, I shared them with some of you all here guess you all forgot? To refresh memories Mike, and to be fare I don't know if he acted on his own or not but would be surprised if all the Mod's over there were not aware; unleashed a self admitted (in a email to my un-posted email account) Smear campaign on me. He him self and others he got wrought all sorts of B.S. "food sucks", "got food poisoning" $hit about me and the restaurant I worked at on Zagats and other food blogs.
I do feel a need to reply to this though....I had no part in this, none what so ever and I'm deeply sorry that took place.
 

WildBoar

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Damn, it's one thing to ban someone from a BBS, but quite another to attack their livelihood/ profession. Sometimes the Internet provides a bit too much 'power'. I cannot think of anything lower then trashing a resturant like that because you are having a disagreement with someone who works there. That can put a lot of people out on the street, and have a lot of families scrambling to pay bills and feed their kids. Hopefully anyone who participated in that fabricated trashing will experience some sort of payback in spades.

That helps to understand your anger, but Adam seems to have worked to rebuild bridges to some of the other people who wired bogged down in this whole thing. This is over a month later that you are raging on him and looking for support/backing. But I suspect you will not find it. If you have continuing issues with him, you really should take it offline going forward. Dave M, Jim and Jay have done a great job in setting up this friendly BBS, and I believe I speak for most in saying it would be nice to keep it that way.

I can understand why you are so pissed, but this just is not the place to keep the battle going. Especially if Adam was not one of the people who trashed the restaurant.
 

Mattias504

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That is really F'd up that someone gave false reviews and reports of you. Some $hit talk on the internet and really ***** with someones personal life are totally different. Sorry that happend Colin.
 

bprescot

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Seriously. That's just perverse. I can't imagine how messed up someone would have to be to think that such an action is warranted because of an online dispute. Really sorry that that happened to you Colin. That is simply not okay. Never had much dealings with Mike S, but this anecdote tells me all I need to know. I would have a hard time believing that Adam had any part in that, though. And if he says he didn't know, I believe him.

I'd also tend to agree with Dave in saying that the best place to resolve any ongoing intra-member issues might be over PT, though.
 

steeley

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Nothing wrong with me .
That stuff that happen on the other forum is just that .
Hell i like both you chef and Adam invite you over for a beer anytime .
Dave has a very nice place here away from that that nonsense.
Now lets get back to what this forum is all about

finding BIG FOOT.:whiteflag::soapbox:
 

Craig

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I thought it was MadRookie that tried to blackmail Dave, and that was the beginning to the whole $hit?

Can anyone please enlighten me on what happened. What does Mark @ CKTG to do with it and precise sharpening?
I can keep track of who did what :(

If Dave got banned by Adam, they seems to be ok now. Adam is here. I know Madrookie tried to join, but he was banned after his first post
The Madrookie bit was more of a hilarious sideshow. "If you don't stop blackmailing, I'm going to use my super-special internet company to hurt you!" Then the followup discussion where I and a few others tried to explain why threatening someone with your company so they stop doing something is blackmail. Good times.
 

mhlee

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I wouldn't say that was a sideshow. A number of people got temporarily banned, including me, because we used, what I would characterize as "slightly colorful" language to express our displeasure that punishments were being handed down arbitrarily and inconsistently, to valuable members like Dave, Colin, Salty, etc., that MadRookie was only banned for one week, and returned to gloat about it. Others, including Colin, got banned permanently.

I understand Colin's anger. Initially, I was upset when I saw Adam. But the more I reviewed the posts at KF after what happened, it seemed obvious to me that whatever part Adam may have had at first, Mike Stewart was the one really responsible for Dave being banned, and all of the other people getting banned. If Mike Stewart is or has intentionally written false, disparaging comments about Colin, that's libel. Colin is absolutely justified in his anger; Mike Stewart could be sued for this if such statements can be traced back to him and Colin has suffered damages.

Actually, I was supposed to have been banned for only one week. I wasn't able to login for months until I brought this up with Adam here. Adam apologized for this and allowed me to log back in although I have not posted there since and only infrequently read the posts there.

Adam was very humble and sincere in his apology. That's why I'm OK with Adam. However, I'm still not OK with KF.
 

Eamon Burke

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I've said it there, I'll say it here:

This is beyond a "blame" issue. It became a kind of nuclear war, where for some reason, people with businesses couldn't handle having a professional and personal life side-by-side. This isn't Mad Men, after all, and folks took it personally.

The point is, Dave was pressured into leaving because people who support KF financially wanted him gone. KF agreed to this, at least through their actions, and then a hurricane of angry people erupted. KF, in my opinion, failed the most, because the have chosen that their website will primarily be an advertisment for socially approved vendors, not a community for intelligent discussion. Colin even did something incredible and called KF's bluff, offering more money than the other guys for control of the forum, and was turned down.

You can point to individuals, you can blame people for who are still friends and who aren't. But from where I'm standing, I see KF turning into a site that none of us want to hang around anymore, so we left, and several forums were born--this forum survived the natural selection and has become a better resource for kitchen specific knives than any other site online.


Has anyone noticed that if you are on KF and suggest someone buy a knife that isn't a KF supporter, your comment gets deleted? I feel like a sucker for paying for a membership to support what has become an oversized, cross-dressing banner ad.

The only person I miss from KF is Mark, wish he was here.
 

watercrawl

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Has anyone noticed that if you are on KF and suggest someone buy a knife that isn't a KF supporter, your comment gets deleted? I feel like a sucker for paying for a membership to support what has become an oversized, cross-dressing banner ad.
What? No it doesn't. Are you being serious? Please send me a PT here to discuss this....this is not something I am aware of....not something I do....and not something I know anything about, but would certainly like to if it's true.
 

Mattias504

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This forum is better than the other one ever was. Everyone that actually had something to contribute, for the most part, ended up here. Not to mention, this place has way more knife makers actually contributing to the general knowledge.
 

rockbox

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The only person I miss from KF is Mark, wish he was here.

Since the nuclear war was mostly between Mark and Dave, I doubt that will happen. Mark is the main reason Dave got banned. Not to say Dave didn't give Mark plenty of ammunition to help his cause.
 

Chef Niloc

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This forum is better than the other one ever was. Everyone that actually had something to contribute, for the most part, ended up here. Not to mention, this place has way more knife makers actually contributing to the general knowledge.
This is very true, think that's a big draw to any aspiring kitchen knife maker, all the gurus in one place..can't get that on KF
 

ecchef

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What? No it doesn't. Are you being serious? Please send me a PT here to discuss this....this is not something I am aware of....not something I do....and not something I know anything about, but would certainly like to if it's true.
Could be, Adam. Maybe now that you've crossed over to the dark side, the information doesn't reach as far as it used to.

I'll bet you didn't know that I'm still on the shite list, even though my suspension was supposed to be over in March. Not that I give a crap...I'd rather be on the banned list anyway at this point. Really.

Anyway, I'm glad that you're here; we go back a ways.
 

goodchef1

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WOW! I didn't know we have a bunch of KF rejects here :lol2: that's cool, I think we all have been outcasts at one point or another. :)

have to be careful though, like so many other forums, this forum is not immune to cliques, bullying, and things that were mentioned before being formed if not moderated by strict guidelines and/or mission statement.

a lot of people who gaze but do not participate, take you guys serious for advice and opinions, and are easily driven away when these things start to happen. These forums are entertaining, helpful, and informative, and many look to them for guidance.
 

mhlee

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WOW! I didn't know we have a bunch of KF rejects here :lol2: that's cool, I think we all have been outcasts at one point or another. :)

have to be careful though, like so many other forums, this forum is not immune to cliques, bullying, and things that were mentioned before being formed if not moderated by strict guidelines and/or mission statement.

a lot of people who gaze but do not participate, take you guys serious for advice and opinions, and are easily driven away when these things start to happen. These forums are entertaining, helpful, and informative, and many look to them for guidance.
These are good points. However, I think that a few things really differentiate things here.

First, KF would NEVER allow for a thread like this to continue. It would have been locked immediately. By allowing this thread to continue (and others that preceded this thread), it's allowing for people to air out their opinions which, for me, has made me feel more like a part of this community than at KF.

Second, in my experience, the vendors here are much more respectful of each other.

Third, Dave, Jon, Marko, Stefan, and the other vendors, including the knifemakers, all have their niche - they are not competing with each other. Dave and Jon both have sharpening products, but with only nominal overlap. The knives they sell are different. The knives sold by the knifemakers are all different. And specifically with respect to Dave and Jon, because I've spoken with both, neither are openly pushing their products in this forum at the expense of someone else's product or price cutting for the sake of poaching sales from other vendors. This was obvious at KF.

Fourth, and lastly, I think the people here are, all in all, better members. They are more respectful and knowledgeable. The more experienced or long time knife owners here may have strong opinions, but, from what I've seen, they've been offered in a friendly manner.

I've enjoyed being a member here much more than at KF. And I'd like to thank all the members here for a great forum.
 

SpikeC

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:scratchhead:What is wrong with you????????
 

Jim

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These are good points. However, I think that a few things really differentiate things here.

First, KF would NEVER allow for a thread like this to continue. It would have been locked immediately. By allowing this thread to continue (and others that preceded this thread), it's allowing for people to air out their opinions which, for me, has made me feel more like a part of this community than at KF.

Second, in my experience, the vendors here are much more respectful of each other.

Third, Dave, Jon, Marko, Stefan, and the other vendors, including the knifemakers, all have their niche - they are not competing with each other. Dave and Jon both have sharpening products, but with only nominal overlap. The knives they sell are different. The knives sold by the knifemakers are all different. And specifically with respect to Dave and Jon, because I've spoken with both, neither are openly pushing their products in this forum at the expense of someone else's product or price cutting for the sake of poaching sales from other vendors. This was obvious at KF.

Fourth, and lastly, I think the people here are, all in all, better members. They are more respectful and knowledgeable. The more experienced or long time knife owners here may have strong opinions, but, from what I've seen, they've been offered in a friendly manner.

I've enjoyed being a member here much more than at KF. And I'd like to thank all the members here for a great forum.

Thanks for the nice run down, this is a good place to point out some operating goals that, as a team we have here at KKF.

Any respectful and gentlemanly discussion is welcome-
Any opinion or experience is welcome-
Threads about vendor issues are welcome - see point #1

Whats not going to be permitted is-

Ax grinding-
Personal attacks-
Stampede posting, where a member is modded and get snarky everywhere on the board.
Posts may be modded at various times (especially titles) for gratuitous vulgarity-
Dragging issues from other boards over to KKF-
Posting Private messages without all parties permission-
Commercial or promotional posts outside the vendors forum-

Basically its "Play nice!"

This has been a pretty easy transition here, many of the men are very seasoned posters and most have at least a few grey hairs.:wink:

The team expected this thread, or one like it to have been posted a long time ago, we discussed it agreed that we would let it run for as long as it needed to to let the men vent, we also plan on it being the last of its kind.

We have a wonderful opportunity here to create a vibrant and useful community, I am very happy to be a small part of it.

Jim
 

watercrawl

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First, KF would NEVER allow for a thread like this to continue. It would have been locked immediatley.
That's simply not true as a general rule. Sure, during the n Lear war that erupted during that stretch, I was certainly more trigger happy. However, the members proved time and time again that the thread couldn't continue peacefully. Ultimately someone would start **** and the thread got locked before I had a chance another one popped up with the same thing. It's not a full time job for me. In order to keep the peace as effectively as possible, I chose the path of lock first, figure it out later.

A thread like this would not get locked today and wouldn't have been any other time as a general rule.
 

chazmtb

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I think we should leave KF be, since this is a new forum. Let it be, guys. Let it go. We have a better place now.
 

Jim

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As a operational rule, if possible we prefer to remove posts that are not in compliance rather than close an entire thread.

If a thread is constantly contentious and has become circular, then it may be closed.

Comments about other forums and bringing up, for or against, specific actions by mods on other forums will be removed.

I would urge all parties to get off their chest anything like this now so we can get back to playing with knives.

Jim
 

stevenStefano

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I am/was still a newcomer when everything happened at KF, but as others have said, I find this place to be better than KF ever was. I feel that at KF the vendor section is more important than the actual discussion part, and so many of the posters are closely allied to the vendors that you have to weigh their opinion against that. I really hope this place keeps being so interesting and informative
 

DWSmith

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Forgive me for my 2 cents worth, but...

I was a poster on KF for four years. I left for a variety of reasons which will not be discussed here. I like KKF because of the family atmosphere and the way the members are treated. So, lets get on with this new sandbox and let the old go out with the trash. What past is past and what is gone is gone and I for one will not look back. We need to get past whatever was and look to what is!
 

SpikeC

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"Those who forget the past are destined to repeat it"
Butt that doesn't mean living there!
 

SpikeC

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I was a little disappointed when this thread was closed, and I'm happy to see that it is being allowed to run it's course.
Well done, Mods!
 
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