Which New Sabatier?

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zizirex

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Any preference for which one is the best for money? I'm looking for 8-10" Carbone Chef Knife with Olive wood handle.

Some say go for K-Sab, some say go for Thiers(4 stars).

Nope, I am not looking for an old vintage one, just want to try the new one. Any difference in the steel from the different makers? or different HT?

Thanks.
 

Corradobrit1

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Before getting into JKnives I was driving carbon K-Sabs. Decent but they tended to take on an ugly gray patina and definitely imparted a metallic taste with some foods. The only knife I have now from France is a forged Thiers (Lion) bread knife with olivewood handle. Bernal carries some nice olivewood handled Sabs
 

zizirex

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Yes, that is why I want to try one. Even E.Dehillerin has one as well but I don't know who is the manufacturer. I heard that the grind is better than most German/Victorinox, this is why I want to try one. A dull edge can be fixed easily, but bad Steel and HT is out of the question.
 

Benuser

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The modern ones have a higher tip and a much less pronounced distal taper. Steel a tad softer than NOS vintages. Here the profile of a modern Thiers-Issard 250mm, a Misono 240 and a Hiromoto AS 270.

I would seriously consider the Robert Herder 1922 instead. Tip is lower than with modern Sabs, 60Rc, very nice F&F. Balance is more neutral. 230mm.
 
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gman

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i have a Thiers-Issard carving set. the fork is both solid and very attractive, but the knife really disappoints. it stays in it's box and i carve with a suji instead.
 

zizirex

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I see it seems like K-Sab has a better review here. the Robert Herder looks nice, but for $200+ price tag, it is too much for that kind of knife (Better go spend for JKnife for this amount). Vintage is nice, but I heard it's like J-Nats, or winning a lottery since HT in the past doesn't have a standardization. You can find a really good Vintage or you can have HT that looks like cheapo Hubert knife.
 

Benuser

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So far, the NOS vintages I got with K-Sabatier was indeed a lottery. Not so much about steel or HT, but more about F&F. Bent or warped were no exception. See it as project knives.
 

SeattleBen

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That's too bad. I've had really good luck, admittedly only bought one though. I worked with @Smashmasta to buy it and he selected it and if I'm being honest right now it's my most grabbed knife.
 
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SeattleBen

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How much do you get that guy out? Looks pretty nice though the profile isn't quite to my liking.
 

Benuser

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The tip is low enough to be usable to me — I'm a short guy, my main problem with modern Germans, and even some modern French. I like the very slight upswing towards the heel: exactly how my knives end after a few years of sharpening. Only thing I miss is a sharp heel.
The 14C28N is very interesting: finely grained as AEB-L but a bit more spicy. Have used AUS-10 only once but quite close to it. Quite a direct feeling as with carbons.
 

Benuser

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How much do you get that guy out? Looks pretty nice though the profile isn't quite to my liking.
Here compared to a NOS Nogent by K-Sabatier. Quite similar profile except for the spear point with the 200 series. Both 250mm. The NOS tip probably even rounder than originally as I had some work on it to get it straight. I removed the protruding 'appendix' at the heel to get the entire edge in line.
 
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Benuser

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An excellent knife. Forget all you know about French F&F. On par with a Misono. Very light<190g with the 250mm. G10 handle. 14C28N.
A correction: Weight is 160g; thickness of 1mm at 20mm towards the spine. Faces still slightly convexed. Not deadly flat as one may fear with those figures.
 

cotedupy

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Here compared to a NOS Nogent by K-Sabatier. Quite similar profile except for the spear point with the 200 series. Both 250mm. The NOS tip probably even rounder than originally as I had some work on it to get it straight. I removed the protruding 'appendix' at the heel to get the entire edge in line.
BUT HOW DO THE MASCOTTES COMPARE TO THE RIZLAS... ??!?!
 

McMan

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Fine, I’ll rain on the parade…. The new Sabs are very different from the old ones. The bolster is much thicker and not as tapered, there is less distal taper, the grind is hit or miss and often thick low, HT is hit or miss. Some but not all of the old blanks “found” weren’t HTed. Finishing/grinding on the new ones is not even close to the old ones.

in terms of knife for the money, it’s the old ones all day. I would strongly urge you to get an old one—4-star, elephant, jeune, aine, K, tichet, pouzet, etc…. You can find a nice one for~$100 or a restoration candidate for $50. Doesn’t have to be a century old either, even the ones from the 60-70s are very nice.

New Sabs don’t hold a candle to the old ones. But, if you’re 100% decided it must be new, email Bernal and ask for a thin one that’s not warped and has a straight handle. Bernal knows Sabs so should be good to deal with and hopefully take away some of the crapshootyness.
 
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Rousselon-Dumas-Sabatier company makes some traditional carbon sabatiers you might like. I recomend also au-nain brand for sabatier style workhorses. K-sabatier is very known in the USA but is not so present here in Europe.
 

Benuser

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Rousselon-Dumas-Sabatier company makes some traditional carbon sabatiers you might like. I recomend also au-nain brand for sabatier style workhorses. K-sabatier is very known in the USA but is not so present here in Europe.
You will find pages and pages about K-Sabatier — both the traditional ones (hit and miss) and the 200-series — with our two German counterparts. I really can't agree about your finding about K-Sabatier being not so present in Europe.
 
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You will find pages and pages about K-Sabatier — both the traditional ones (hit and miss) and the 200-series — with our two German counterparts. I really can't agree about your finding about K-Sabatier being not so present in Europe.
Hi,
I'm not saying at all that are non existant in Europe, but I think they exist much more bigger and present brands. For some brands in Europe the way of living is exporting to america/Japan. When looking at certain brands almost all the sales are to the USA/Japan because the knife collector base is higher there than europe so they focus more in those markets. I think that is the case with Sabatier K, although I could be wrong. I have no problems with that at all, but that results in a big presence in a country while in the producing region or other regions is less present (Not NO present at all :)

Sabatier K (or oficially Sabatier Aine & Perrier company) has a sales amount of (in Euro) less than 2M (1,97M) while the most sold french brands are (in decreasing order) TB (Tarrerias Bonjean) 19,47M, Jean dubost 15,52M, Fischer 9,50M and Rousselon-Dumas-Sabatier 6,49M. From all those brands the one that is oriented to the more traditional french knife is Rousselon, hence my recommendation. I also knew Au nain (2,35M) because they offer a "sabatieresque" aproach to the classic and is very cheap.

I searched four major french online knife sellers and neither does sell this brand.
Couteaux de cuisine
Couteaux du chef
Couteaux-Center
TOC (old LA BOBIDA)

And replying to your point: of course you can find pages and pages of the brand here, thats because is very present in this forum. Now search Tarrerias Bonjean (or TB): none or almost none search results for the biggest knife manufacturer of France, thats my point. The presence in pages is as high as the knowledge in the site of the brand.

With all that said, thats only my opinion because we cant know the exact numbers and selling destinations of each brand. I just wanted to introduce OP other brands with sabatier style knifes apart from the ever-recomended Sabatier K.
 

Benuser

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Thanks for the figures! Fascinating.
Rousselon-Dumas-Sabatier includes the well-known Lion Sabatier brand, and the budget 2 Lions which is imported.
 
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Benuser

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Have you been able to compare the carbons from K-Sabatier and Le Lion ?
From long, long time ago I remember the stainless of both. There was an effort by K-Sabatier to get on par with the Germans by introducing Krupp's 4116, while Le Lion stood with the even lower carbon ones. Sharpening was no fun. But their prices were lower.
 
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Have you been able to compare the carbons from K-Sabatier and Le Lion ?
From long, long time ago I remember the stainless of both. There was an effort by K-Sabatier to get on par with the Germans by introducing Krupp's 4116, while Le Lion stood with the even lower carbon ones. Sharpening was no fun. But their prices were lower.
I had a lion sabatier stainless but I changed it. I have sometimes seen carbon ones but not used them, so, my knowledge there is very limited... the only thing I can say is that I think Rousselon is shortening the carbon line and focusing on stainless, and yes, the price point is their biggest factor
 
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