Which steel/characteristics for cutting meat on a hard plate?

[palindrome]

Let's say I'm going to regularly cut steak on a ceramic or glass plate. What edge characteristics would I look for to mitigate the damage and stay reasonably sharp? (Note: I sharpen with diamond.)

My guess: the blade should have belly so it won't become convex when sharpened on the dull part. It should be tough and hard but not too hard. It should be thin behind the edge for easy of sharpening and for cutting non-meat. The micro-bevel should not be too acute--is this enough to prevent rolling and chipping? The micro-bevel should be coarse so it still cuts when it starts to dull.

What category of steel would you recommend? What edge geometry?

 

[coxhaus]

I would think a little bit higher angle but to each his own. It is what I use.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

For steel, if you have diamond stones, the sky is really the limit. Is depends some on whether this will be a purpose built streak knife, or a knife that will get used for cutting steaks. If just a steak knife...pick any good moderate to high wearing steel, something with MC carbides (not 440c, D2, 154CM).....CPM-M4, MagnaCut, ZWear, S35VN, K390, S90V, Z-Max, 10V, ha...REX121.

 

[blokey]

how about ceramic on ceramic?

 

[Nemo]

I can't imagine any steel standing up to this type of use. If it did, you would probably get score marks in the plate.

Best option may be to use soft Western style knives where the edge failure method is rolling, then realign the edge on a steele.

 

[coxhaus]

I use some old Chicago cutlery back when it was made in the US. I sharpen at 20 degrees once or twice a year.

 

[Jovidah]

I would recommend wooden plates instead.

 

[Benuser]

I can't imagine any steel standing up to this type of use. If it did, you would probably get score marks in the plate.



Best option may be to use soft Western style knives where the edge failure method is rolling, then realign the edge on a steele.

Once you're sure an edge will get damaged you may choose a harder type of steel. Advantage: perhaps the damage gets limited. Disadvantage: repairing takes a lot of work. My option would be a relatively or frankly soft simple carbon. Even with a very conservative, strongly convexed thick edge it gets easily crazy sharp. There is in your use no need for a thin edge.
I use a Misono carbon yo-deba for harsh tasks, or a carbon Sab. All simple steels, you easily maintain with Belgian Brocken and cardboard. If a lot of production is to be made, a Dickoron Polish may be helpful.
Other than soft stainless, the steel is very little abrasion resistance, so stay away from any diamond. And it takes a high polish, so you can maintain it without any coarse grit and the resulting loss of material. The kind of edge I've in mind:

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I can't imagine any steel standing up to this type of use. If it did, you would probably get score marks in the plate.

Best option may be to use soft Western style knives where the edge failure method is rolling, then realign the edge on a steele.

I think @jwthaparc did some K390 testing on plates to see if it scored them and it didn't. At lest I think I'm remembering that right.

 

[drrayeye]

Let's say I'm going to regularly cut steak on a ceramic or glass plate. What edge characteristics would I look for to mitigate the damage and stay reasonably sharp? (Note: I sharpen with diamond.)

My guess: the blade should have belly so it won't become convex when sharpened on the dull part. It should be tough and hard but not too hard. It should be thin behind the edge for easy of sharpening and for cutting non-meat. The micro-bevel should not be too acute--is this enough to prevent rolling and chipping? The micro-bevel should be coarse so it still cuts when it starts to dull.

What category of steel would you recommend? What edge geometry?

It's not the steel. It's the cutting board. If you use a good cutting board, most any hard steel will work fine.

 

[Blank Blades.]

I think @jwthaparc did some K390 testing on plates to see if it scored them and it didn't. At lest I think I'm remembering that right.

I'm not sure?

You might be thinking of someone else depending on what you're talking about.

 

[Blank Blades.]

I think @jwthaparc did some K390 testing on plates to see if it scored them and it didn't. At lest I think I'm remembering that right.

I will say, even just 26c3 if left right near as quenched hardness will start to score glass.

Idk what the real best option would be for this use case. My thought is do you want the knife to dull, or the plate to get scratched and the knife to dull? Because its going to dull either way.

Edit. After thinking for a second. Maybe your best option is *shudders* serrated. It will leave more ragged cuts. But the plus side is at least some of the edge wont be touching the plate.

 

[Blank Blades.]

It's not the steel. It's the cutting board. If you use a good cutting board, most any hard steel will work fine.

I don't think they're using a cutting board in this case. But cutting the food while its on their plate.

 

[palindrome]

Haha, thanks for all the insight! It seems like I'm chasing a unicorn. I wanted a knife that stays extremely effective, but I'll settle for one that works okay. I'll plan on needing the honing rod.

Incidentally, I have a m390 blank of uncertain provenance (but real I think). It only scratches glass if I press hard. If I can shape it without ruining the temper, I'll see how it does alongside a no-name steel (both with honing rod — but the project could take a month or a year so don't hold your breath).

 

[mengwong]

Guys guys I solved it

1000 grit if medium
4000 grit if rare

 

[Blank Blades.]

Haha, thanks for all the insight! It seems like I'm chasing a unicorn. I wanted a knife that stays extremely effective, but I'll settle for one that works okay. I'll plan on needing the honing rod.

Incidentally, I have a m390 blank of uncertain provenance (but real I think). It only scratches glass if I press hard. If I can shape it without ruining the temper, I'll see how it does alongside a no-name steel (both with honing rod — but the project could take a month or a year so don't hold your breath).

I mean, if you want something that won't be phased much by glass, and you don,'t mind it scratching the glass. Zmax.

Rex 121, and maxamet also. But both arent quite as tough.

These will get dulled also, just slower than basically anything else.

Also, thats surprising m390 is scratching glass. Though i guess i've never tried to scratch glass with low 60s rockwell steel, so idk what i would expect.

 

[blokey]

I wonder if they makes a steak knife out of it, this seems to be a good solution.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/elastic-ceramic-knife.51747/

 

[Cadillac J]

Just get yourself some Victorinox serrated steak knives...I've had mine and used on ceramic plates for over ten years and they still cut like the day I got them.

 

[mengwong]

What’s so difficult about restoring the edge after use, anyway? In a home environment at least. Just a few strokes to touch up the edge.

 

[Rangen]

What’s so difficult about restoring the edge after use, anyway? In a home environment at least. Just a few strokes to touch up the edge.

It's not so much restoring the edge after use. It's policing spouses and relatives and guests who would helpfully toss the knives in the sink, or load them in the dishwasher.

 

[timos]

I've used 20cv and m390 for these type of knives, definitely a noticeable difference over lower alloy steels.
Cost is quite a bit higher though.

 

[Heckel7302]

I don't really understand the need to cut on a plate. Why not cut the meat on a cutting board and serve sliced? Sure people may want to cut those slices down further, but any knife can do that. Think about all the fun your suji/gyuto is missing out on, not to mention the hot protein patina not being developed.

 

[mockit]

I think we are missing the part about where he doesn’t have control over how it’s being used or what the cutting surface is lol. He wants a bombproof knife that is also a nice knife . Personally would have cheap stuff out and hide the nice stuff in a drawer or cupboard. As mentioned there are trade offs to everything!

 

[palindrome]

Ahh, I almost completely forgot about stropping! Actually I'm not sure how much abuse a blade can take and still be stropped. As dull blades can't be stropped, for instance. I'll try stropping my cheap kitchen knives to see what happens. I'm just waiting for some stropping compound and wax to come in, as I lost mine in a move.

And why not on the cutting board? Besides the fact that cutting boards are either unclean or for vegetables only, I don't think sliced meat is still steak. It's a mental thing, but each bite needs to be cut. Or bitten off, if I'm alone and feeling like an animal.

 

[mengwong]

If you slice it before serving its not a steak. If I order a steak and it comes pre-sliced I usually send it back.

 

[drrayeye]

So, damaging a knife is OK? If you wish to serve steak unsliced, why not on a wooden board where your guest user those fancy steak knives you've provided?

 

[Jovidah]

And why not on the cutting board? Besides the fact that cutting boards are either unclean or for vegetables only,

This is why I have a seperate board for cooked meat, and I sanitize it vigorously by licking off all the meat juices.

 

[drrayeye]

Just get yourself some Victorinox serrated steak knives...I've had mine and used on ceramic plates for over ten years and they still cut like the day I got them.

Why not plastic? An expensive steak deserves a better presentation than a ceramic plate and an ugly serrated knife.

 

[M1k3]

Sounds like 3v, Z-wear or MagnaCut ground thin, with a somewhat conservative sharpening angle, would work.

 

[Barmoley]

If the requirement is to cut on plates, somewhat thin blade with appropriate serrations is hard to beat. Even the most wear resistant steels will dull on plates. Some messing with geometry will help, but it is futile if you don't want to sharpen all the time. A thin serrated blade even out of crappy steel will most likely work better. Steak knives have very little edge that gets stressed a lot, this is where geometry wins, specifically serrations.