which zwilling j a henckel knives?

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tk59

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That about sums it up although I rarely use my Tojiro ITK bread knife. That's not because it isn't a great knife, either.
 

mhlee

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I was in a similar position about a year ago. I was looking to upgrade from a Global G-2 Chef's knife, found various knife-related forums, and became completely confounded by all the options. I've made three knife purchase, 4 stone purchases, and related other miscellaneous purchases. One of the knives was a Hiromoto AS 240. It's a good, but not great knife IMHO, but I don't quite think it's a great starting knife as it requires extra care because it is a carbon steel core knife and to get full performance out of that knife, you'll have to put time and effort into sharpening.

IMHO, I would start inexpensively so you don't have buyer's remorse for spending a lot of money on a knife you're not too happy with. Since it sounds like you haven't used carbon knves before, I think you should start with a stainless steel chef's knife. For this, I also think the CarboNext is probably the best choice. While I've never used it, enough reputable people have and it's gotten very good reviews. Given its price, it's one of the best price/performance knives available. Shipping is also very reasonable. A santoku would be redundant; it's another all purpose knife like your chef's knife or gyuto. However, note that it does not come with a good edge, like most knives. Getting a honing rod (or sending it to someone here for an initial sharpening) will be necessary.

If you happen to use a small knife for paring, then a paring knife is probably something you'll really want to purchase. Unfortunately, I haven't found one yet that I'm really happy with so I can't give you a personal recommendation. A 120 mm petty knife is usable for paring and small tasks. I have a Sakai Takayuki that I would not recommend. There are better options for the price. Since many petty knives are around the same price, you can choose whatever knife interests you without a huge price difference between your choices. However, the Fujiwara petty knives are a good deal at $35 for either the stainless or carbon.

Several people have recommended a bread knife. If you do cut a lot of bread, sandwiches, etc., a bread knife would be a good addition. However, I wouldn't necessarily invest in a Tojiro ITK bread knife. It's a very good knife - I have one - but you could get close to the same performance with a cheaper alternative such as a Victorinox/Forschner for about $40 less. I've had a Dexter offset bread knife for years before buying the Tojiro. I think I paid $13 years ago. It still does the job. You can use the money you saved to buy a ceramic honing rod, stone or put toward that nice cutting board.

You definitely can get a nice starter set for about $300, not including shipping. Here's an example:

Carbonext 240: $128.00 (+ $7.00 shipping)
Fujiwara 120 petty knives: $35.00 (no additional shipping according to JCK website)
Forschner 10 1/4 inch Bread Knife: $24.95
Idahone 10 inch Ceramic Honing Rod: $24.00
Maple Boardsmith 2x12x18 Board: $102.95

Total (including shipping costs for CarboNext, Fujiwara and Boardsmith Board): $314.90

If you purchase a Sani-Tuff board or other board, you can reduce the amount by at least $25. If you take out the bread knife, you've reduced your total by another $25.
 

Lefty

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I agree with johndoughy, except for one small thing. Carter was born in Canada :D
I'd go Fujiwara FKM (or carbonext) 210-240 gyuto, and for yourself, a small petty (120-150mm), and a parer for the wife. Bread knives, to me are frivolous purhases. I very rarely use my bread knife, and I eat a lot of bread.
 

Eamon Burke

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Carter, as we know him, was born in Japan. He's a Yoshimoto bladesmith, you know. :wink:

He's here now, that's all that matters to me.
 

Lefty

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Those skills are as much a part of MC, as loving hockey is. Don't you know that all Canadians have the ability to make world class knives? Most of us just don't know it yet!
;)
 

stevenStefano

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Just out of curiosity, do many people have experience of the Zwilling Twin Cermax? This knife keeps popping up and I consider getting it just to see what it is like because spec-wise it looks great but very few people ever talk about it. The 66hrc also appeals to me because I am a pro
 

Rottman

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The larger twin cermax knives have good profiles (200 and 240 gyuto) and are thin (a little over 2 mm above the heel) but the handledesign is an insult. That's why I converted them to wa-handles a while ago. The edge retention of ZDP-189 is extreme, drops to something like 90 percent pretty fast but stays there forever.
 

goodchef1

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haven't used the cermax, but their Miyabi MC66 uses the same steel with different profile. I wish the handles were a bit larger, but I can attest to ZDP's performance "Top Notch" If you are a pro, then go with this beast, or at least one with this steel.
 

Wagstaff

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If I'm buying a gift for my dad... I'm thinking CarboNext or Fujiwara. I have a CarboNext so I have a pretty good idea of what I'd be getting (both in terms of the knife and the ootb edge); can someone compare the Fujiwara FKM? (I don't want to go carbon in this line, from all I've read about what happens before the knife 'settles down', though my dad is ok with carbons in principle). I'm curious about any comparisons overall, and ootb (which matters more in this context than it might if I were buying for myself). Also, do you think both these knives can be sharpened ok on Arkansas stones? i.e., my impression is that they're not so hard to as to require waterstones. Let me know if I'm wrong. (Dad has Arks, and has never used waterstones; I'm trying to keep the overall price down).

So I'm hesitant with the CN because of the OOTB edge and also like the idea of the Fujiwara being even less expensive. But I have never touched a Fujiwara. What say you all?
 

MadMel

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Fuji is dull ootb.. I do not have experience with the CN but the Fuji FKM is pretty easy to sharpen. If you compare both and you have the $$, I'd rather go for the CN anyday.
 

tk59

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Fuji is dull ootb.. I do not have experience with the CN but the Fuji FKM is pretty easy to sharpen. If you compare both and you have the $$, I'd rather go for the CN anyday.
+1 Both easy to sharpen and come with an unremarkable edge but the CN wins in terms of edge quality and retention.
 

Wagstaff

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Thanks MadMel and tk59 -- this is what I'd expected; I was *hoping* the ootb edge might be better with the Fuji, cause' its' cheaper. But if he can sharpen on his Arks, it doesn't matter. And edge-retention wins. Most appreciated. (He's got an old Sab that at one time was a crazily beautiful knife -- thinner than my Nogents, noticeably -- but it has been badly abused probably beyond recovery over the decades, and he doesn't REMEMBER how good it was because it's been so long! Now, in old age, he's doing the cooking for my mom, and would finally be in a position to appreciate the good tools. I think that Sab is probably about as thin as my CN, so the CN it is).
 

Wagstaff

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Do you have pics of the old knife?
No I don't... it's in Vermont, where I was last week, too briefly. (That and only a low-pixel camera on my cellphone... but I didn't think to even shoot it while I was there. I sharpened it such as I could, and couldn't believe how easy it was to do. But the tip is broken, the edge is somewhat recurved (like, "bird beak" section) nearer the tip, and it's pretty badly pitted front and back. He said he paid $25 for it on Canal Street in the 1960s some time. Told the guy he wanted a good knife... heard "you came to the right place" and quickly spent that outrageous sum. Maybe I can get him to send it to me, though, if I get him the CN.
 

mjbakos

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How about the Kagayaki VG-10? Does anybody have any thoughts on this vs. the CarboNext? Both are very nice looking and comparable in price. After much reading and thinking - would like for this to be about my max range. Almost settled for the Tojiro knives, being a beginner and their price, but if these would be a huge benefit....

And thoughts about size. The average seems to be 210mm in the gyuto, but some say that the longer (240mm) would be better. Being a newbie, I know it doesn't sound like much, but I don't want to feel uncomfortable like I have too much knife.
 

MadMel

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Hmm, basically, I'd measure my knife vs the chopping board I'd be using. If the whole knife can fit INSIDE of the chopping board diagonally, you're good to go. The too much knife problem arises when the knife is not well balanced or you have got a too drastic board to knife size difference.
 

Benuser

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About Kagayaki KV series: exceptional F&F in its price range. Non-standard design you may like or not... Very thin, good factory edge. But it is made of VG-10, so not the easiest to sharpen. So, if pleasant sharpening is important to you this wouldn't be yours. If you're looking for stainless you may enjoy its edge retention, not at the highest level of sharpness although.
 

stevenStefano

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I have the 240 wa-KV8 and I like it a lot. I think the Carbonext would perform better, but the KV8 probably looks a bit better. Just depends on your priorities
 

NO ChoP!

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I have the 240mm Twin Cermax M66 gyuto. I love it, for the most part. I actually have no issues with the handle design, but could see how it would be bulky on a smaller blade. The balance is almost perfectly centered at the bolster, which for a western isn't too bad.

As far as steel performance, it took some time to flip the asymmetrical edge over, since I'm a lefty, but it does get nice and sharp and stays sharp forever. It reminds of a Moritaka AS on the board, but isn't chippy at all; but you wont want to rock with this thing.

I do not like the cladding though, this would be 100X's better if it were monosteel. The cladding scratches easily, to say the least.
 

Tatletz

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:ntmy:

Ok I'll break the decorum here.

I find those knives appalling, because the qualities that make a knife worth ANY amount of money are:
1. Geometry
2. Heat Treat
3. Edge quality(strictly sharpening job)
4. Design
5. Comfort
6. Aesthetics

I've never seen a single knife from Henckels' name brand lines that provides a single one of those points in any quantity worth noting. It may seem snooty, or petulant, but considering they are a gigantic global company and producing them in state-of-the-art factories with highly paid engineers behind them, it is completely unacceptable that they aren't brilliant performers on SOME level.
:rant:



That said, I have a brother. Nothing like one-upsmanship between siblings, why not just take yourself back to scratch and come out with cutlery that is going to blow any concept of expectations out of the water(for both of you)? There's a thread here with some simple questions, and links to definitions of terms like "grip" and "cutting motion" that will help us provide you with a knife and accessories that will fit your budget/wants/needs and set a new standard for your expectations.


This is just a joke BurkeCutlery :lol2: , obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or you just brainwashing others. All you posted about Henckels knives is not true and I'm shure you know it. Please try to do your homework befor writing another hiccup. You should specify if this judgement is based on yours or worlds standards.
 

El Pescador

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This is just a joke BurkeCutlery :lol2: , obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or you just brainwashing others. All you posted about Henckels knives is not true and I'm shure you know it. Please try to do your homework befor writing another hiccup. You should specify if this judgement is based on yours or worlds standards.
I doubt you've spent any time reading the forum or you'd see value in his post. There is value to Henkels, but at the expense of performance. Do you own any cutlery made from a high performance steel? If not, I'd try some out to see what all the fuss is about.

Pesky
 

Deckhand

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This is just a joke BurkeCutlery :lol2: , obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or you just brainwashing others. All you posted about Henckels knives is not true and I'm shure you know it. Please try to do your homework befor writing another hiccup. You should specify if this judgement is based on yours or worlds standards.
:nono::bat:
 

SpikeC

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What a nice way to introduce yourself to the forum.
 

Lefty

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Oh, come on! Maybe read Eamon's other posts before categorizing him as a know-it-all, or what have you.
I'm normally really welcoming to new guys, but give your head a shake and delete your account for the sake of all of us.
 

Johnny.B.Good

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Please try to do your homework befor writing another hiccup. You should specify if this judgement is based on yours or worlds standards.
One might advise you to do the same. I would be willing to bet that Mr. Burke has done more homework on kitchen knives than you have.

Glad you're enjoying your Henckels however and welcome to the forum. :rolleyes2:
 

Justin0505

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I just got caught up on this thread, and, as always I see that the new guy got some fantastic advice. However, I'm a bit shocked /disappointed that no one mentioned one of the best parts of this forum:THE BUY SELL TRADE section!


There's even a bunch of brand new Miyabi 5000'S sitting there w/ huge discounts just begging for a new home:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4651-Miyabi-5000s-for-sale
 

Crothcipt

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Hmmm its funny, that I know a lot of cooks/chefs that have said to me Henckels are the best. I would always cringe. I would always try their knife and want to throw it at them. I never knew why until one day I picked up a global knife and I was singing. I have since been looking for the next experience that I was looking for when I picked up Henckels. OMG I can even stop thinking how sad I feel for those guys.
 

ThEoRy

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This is just a joke BurkeCutlery :lol2: , obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or you just brainwashing others. All you posted about Henckels knives is not true and I'm shure you know it. Please try to do your homework befor writing another hiccup. You should specify if this judgement is based on yours or worlds standards.
Sorry man but the majority of Henkles just flat out suck on big ones. The only ones of merit are the miyabi with zdp 189 or the Twin Cermax but those are being viewed here as a different beast all together. Eamon isn't referring to any of those in his post. Merely the regular henkles lineups up to (and I would include) the 5000s. Anything over that is again considered Japanese steel, not German.

But hey welcome to the forum! lol
 

Pensacola Tiger

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This is just a joke BurkeCutlery :lol2: , obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or you just brainwashing others. All you posted about Henckels knives is not true and I'm shure you know it. Please try to do your homework befor writing another hiccup. You should specify if this judgement is based on yours or worlds standards.
That's what I love to see on a forum - civility and decorum. Especially from a new member.
 
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