Why 1095?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by TSF415, Feb 16, 2020.

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  1. Feb 16, 2020 #1

    TSF415

    TSF415

    TSF415

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    What are the characteristics or benefits of 1095? What is it most like?

    From makers I’ve spoke to, 1095 and 52100 are in the same price range. My experience so far has been that 52100 out preforms 1095 it a ton of categories.

    Any reason in particular someone chooses 1095?
     
  2. Feb 16, 2020 #2

    labor of love

    labor of love

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    It seems sorta like white 2. If you like wh2 knives you’ll like 1095...perhaps.
     
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  3. Feb 16, 2020 #3

    Barmoley

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    1095 is very close to white 2, sometimes identical to it. Why would someone use 1095 vs 52100, hamon for one, 52100 is deep hardening steel so hamon is very difficult. 1095 is marginally easier to sharpen.
     
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  4. Feb 16, 2020 #4

    TSF415

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    Curious why it’s used often even when not for a honyaki.

    Does it have the ability to get sharper? And I guess if it is similar or the same of white 2, why is white 2 more common than other carbons?
     
  5. Feb 16, 2020 #5

    RDalman

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    The problem is not really the 1095, but a mass of makers following general "gospel" in heat treatment without verifying themselves and get disappointing results, hardness wise.
    This happens with 52100 and alot of other steels as well.
     
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  6. Feb 16, 2020 #6

    chinacats

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    I prefer 1095 as it feels much nicer on the stones...i think 52100 feels rather sticky/soft by comparison. I also prefer o1 or 1084 ovr 52100 for the same reason.
     
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  7. Feb 16, 2020 #7

    NO ChoP!

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    I think 1095 is closer to that vintage/ virgin carbon steel everyone loves. It sharpens up super easy and takes a wonderful edge.

    52100 is harder to work with, I believe. It has better edge retention. Its added chromium can feel gummy on the stones.
     
  8. Feb 16, 2020 #8

    labor of love

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    On paper 1095 and wh2 are almost identical, not disagreeing with you or anything-but I just wanted to clarify what I meant by “similar”
     
  9. Feb 16, 2020 #9

    ma_sha1

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    I wonder why 52100 appears so popular with custom makers?
     
  10. Feb 16, 2020 #10

    labor of love

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    Finely grained carbon steel would be my guess.
     
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  11. Feb 16, 2020 #11

    RDalman

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    It's pretty stable in heat treatment, deep hardening and doesn't require a very aggressive quench. This means you can "get away" with a thinner pre ht grind, and do less of that post ht.
     
  12. Feb 16, 2020 #12

    ma_sha1

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    Thanks!
     
  13. Feb 16, 2020 #13

    TSF415

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    I guess I could have started by saying, “I only use crappy poly boards.” 52100 holds up well to them. 1095 not as much. Definitely more of a me issue. Although the 1095 I have used doesn’t hold as well as the white2 I’ve used. Or I can likely be just imagining it which would be another explanation.
     
  14. Feb 16, 2020 #14

    labor of love

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    What 1095 have you used?
    I’ve used very nice 1095 from both Kippington and Isasmedjan and others. If you want edge retention might want to look elsewhere. Although, I’ve used plenty of stuff with worse and better retention. Just depends what you’re comparing it to.
     
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  15. Feb 16, 2020 #15

    TSF415

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    Not looking for edge retention per se. I’ve just had a better experience with 52100 from the same maker. (A well respected great maker who I’d choose not to name on this thread so that it doesn’t get misconstrued that I was knocking his work.) Like I said it’s more of a “me” thing with my situation. Kinda all makes sense now. Just curious what was the draw.

    also I haven’t done much more than a quick touch up on the 52100 so I guess I will understand more in time.
     
  16. Feb 16, 2020 #16
    52100 has the smallest carbides and the finest grain of any steel(s).

    Hoss
     
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  17. Feb 16, 2020 #17

    marc4pt0

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    For a while I thought 1095 was a cheaper and much easier steel to use for knife makers who were just starting off. That thought was based off nothing really. I knew it took a great edge as well, or at least assumed it did.

    Based off my original thoughts on 1095, I didn’t use or own a blade until just recently. I’ll say that I definitely missed out. Yes, it does depend on the maker and their treatment of said steel, but I find it very easy to sharpen, and it does take quite the impressive edge.

    A few years ago 52100 kind of really took the scene by storm, or so it seemed. It’s a steel I feel very comfortable with when sharpening and building patina. That’s probably because of the amount of knives I’ve had in this steel in contrast to other steel types.
     
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  18. Feb 16, 2020 #18

    panda

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    1095 feels better on stones than 52100. easier to sharpen but way less retention.
     
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  19. Feb 16, 2020 #19

    labor of love

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    Shihan should remain exempt from these 52100 generalizations
     
  20. Feb 17, 2020 #20

    Larrin

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    Are you saying the positive generalizations shouldn’t be applied or the negative ones? Or it is so average neither can be applied?
     
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  21. Feb 17, 2020 #21

    labor of love

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    Whoa, you’re making me sweat over here. Lemme do some testing in the next 2 days and I can be more approximate.
    But yes, my instinct here is to say his 52100 Doesn’t have the same character as what’s being discussed. Sharpens up quicker, perhaps a loss of edge stability.
     
  22. Feb 17, 2020 #22

    captaincaed

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    It's interesting to hear two viewpoints. On one side, seems like 52100 can be a nice steel to work with from the makers side (Dalman's comment on grinding). On the other side, it sounds like it offers opportunities for refined metallurgy (Hoss' comment on gain size). Is it truly good in both areas?

    Are other steels just "nice" to work with?
     
  23. Feb 17, 2020 #23

    panda

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    well it's been said that shihan's treat feels a lot like hitachi white and blue which is a bit out of the ordinary.
     
  24. Feb 17, 2020 #24

    bahamaroot

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    Love the 52100 I got from Marko. Sharpens easy and gets screaming sharp. Holds its edge respectably well to me.
     
  25. Feb 17, 2020 #25

    Barmoley

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    I always felt that 52100 is so easy to sharpen and that it feels nice on the stones. You guys are on a different level of differentiating the feel. To me well treated 52100 is so much better than white 2 or 1095. Interesting to see a different perspective.
     
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  26. Feb 17, 2020 #26

    jacko9

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    Why use 1095 because it's a good steel and my 12 1/4" chefs knife that's over 30 years old just keeps cutting. I got this knife as a kit I don't totally remember but it might have been Green River or something like that and I bought several kits and gave most of them to my kids when they moved out of the house but the large one is for when I decide that I want to shred cabbage or other large ingredients. The edge is easy to sharpen and stays sharp forever (since I don't use it that much).
     
  27. Feb 17, 2020 #27

    panda

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    KS is still to me the best feeling white2 on stones. as far as steel as a whole (not just feedback), good 52100 is great, but have you ever tried mizuno white2 honyaki? AMAZING stuff. kippington's 1095 is also really damn good i would say about equal to marko's 52100 for different reasons.
     
  28. Feb 17, 2020 #28

    Barmoley

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    I haven't tried Mizuno white 2 honyaki. I have Mizuno blue 2 honyaki and the heat treat is excellent. Kippington 1095 is great. I still like 52100 more, kippington, Marko, Tansu, Shihan not in any order
     
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  29. Feb 17, 2020 #29

    Kippington

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    I hardly use 1095 anymore. I have a bar of it just sitting here.

    It has low toughness when compared to W2 for some reason, meaning there's a higher chance of cracks during a fast quench. W2 hamons also have a lot more ups and downs along the line, making them subjectively more interesting to look at. Maybe I should do some straight line hamons...

    I'd also like to experiment with a super low temper on 1095 (at 150°C/300°F) at some point, to see if it helps with edge retention. I know some dudes that do close to no-temper knives made from 1095, but they do it on a small paring knives.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  30. Feb 17, 2020 #30

    TSF415

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    I have a Marko, HVB, and Laseur in 52100 which all are amazing. On Kippingtons wait list and have my eyes on a Shihan. I fell like I'll be very partial to 52100 with that Quintuplet.

    And with all that being said I'm excited to use my 1095 more and finally hit the stones with it.
     

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