Why are HF not selling on BST?

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I am admittedly a little bit of a Hf fan boy. Everything I have had from him or tried (not a huge amount but an okay number, I think) have been outstanding. Yet….. it seems like they just don’t sell second hand even when they are substantially less than new. Any theories as to why??
 
His wrought iron stone shaped bevel work has always sold pretty well, not to the level of some of the super hyped makers but decent. The full polished convex grinds and dammy stuff seems to sit. I really like his work and I think he does one of the best convex grinds out there. I just wish he kept it simpler with the steel choice and lowered the price.

Not sure if this also contributes to them sitting but he has been consistently making a while and there are a lot of HF's floating out there...
 
Excellent question and one I've been pondering for a while. I don't have an answer or even a theory. I've tried around 5-6 of his knives and held 8-9 all were very well made and cover a range of styles. The ones I've tried were excellent cutters. Fit and finish has been universally good and the knives in general have been excellent. I experience the same confusion about LaSeur, Edgerton, Martell when he made knives and a few others that to me are as good or better than some of the popular makers. My only guess that is not really a good explanation is that these guys make a range of different styles so potential buyers don't know what exactly they are getting. I don't actually think that could be it, but I don't have any other good explanations.
 
Sorry if this is a stupid question but…. What do you mean simpler steel choice?

Also the other reasons sound logical, him just being a maker with more stuff floating around so, we in the collecting group, have probably maxed out or Hf slots.
 
Sorry if this is a stupid question but…. What do you mean simpler steel choice?

Also the other reasons sound logical, him just being a maker with more stuff floating around so, we in the collecting group, have probably maxed out or Hf slots.
I like it when we uses 1.2519 as core steel with a non stainless cladding. He seems to go dammy or monosteel these days. If he did 1.2519 with a wrought iron cladding in a convex grind it would sell assuming it's under $1k.

Just a thought reading Barmoley's response. The performance on the knives don't really do well in a "face off" against other makers which a lot of people here do. They are more middle of road where they tick every box and are the type of knife I would use on the daily but it's not going to "out cut" Yanick or Bidinger (which I think is waste of time). Some may take this as a critique but I mean it as a compliment. His work is really fun to use and extremely well made.
 
They used to sell like hotcakes 2ish years ago? I think if he does more low bevel wrought stuff it will sell quick.

I love mine for the aesthetics and craftsmanship but yeah it doesn't outcut my Yanick, nine or Milan I've had. Still quite decent just not at the same level.

Then again, not many American makers doing stone polished bevels
 
I have wanted to buy a HF for a while, but the right one hasn’t come up for me on BST (and I can’t seem to get a custom order over the line with him on IG either).

Common features on the knives I see sitting on BST (which I’m coincidentally not into):

- Oval handles
- Handles with woods I don’t personally jive with (mostly the lighter birch styles)
- Dammy: I don’t like feather or the ball bearing styles
- Sometimes slightly funky dimensions and profiles
- Weirdly expensive compared to his other knives for features that aren’t important such as a more fancy handle

If one of his awesome looking western handled knives with wrought cladding and low bevels popped up, it would sell in a flash.
 
I guess I am not that much of a fan of low bevels in gyutos or wrought iron either. Wrought iron makes pretty knives to be sure and I have a few, but I wouldn’t take low bevel wrought over mono convex for example. If I wanted a user, low bevel I’d get kochi with machi and call it a day. I also prefer all rounders to specialized knives and in my experience low bevels are usually not as good in that regard as convex grinds. I’ve had a few low bevel Catchesides that were great all rounders, so it happens, but in general well done convex is the way to go for me. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying low bevel is a bad grind I just don’t get the fascination and extreme preference for these. With wrought I can kind of understand the visual and polishing appeal, but that is also low on my preference list.
 
in my experience low bevels are usually not as good in that regard as convex grinds. I’ve had a few low bevel Catchesides that were great all rounders, so it happens, but in general well done convex is the way to go for me. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying low bevel is a bad grind I just don’t get the fascination and extreme preference for these.
Yeah I totally get that.

I’ve only recently become a fan of low bevels, but that’s with a pretty strong condition on the knife having good forged geometry so that it’s effectively convexed all the way from above the bevel to the edge.

Low bevel knives with a (more or less) seamless transition between the flat and the bevel that you can barely feel if you run your fingers over it perform really well in my experience.

Overly distinctive shoulders are not for me and in my experience don’t cut very well, even if they might have good food release or whatever. I really don’t care about food release, so long as the knife doesn’t suffer from stiction. The only low bevel knives I’ve used that don’t conform to this trend and cut well regardless are from Simon Maillet. But I haven’t tried many makers who use this style, so that observation isn’t worth too much.
 
I've tried around 5-6 of his knives and held 8-9 all were very well made and cover a range of styles. The ones I've tried were excellent cutters. Fit and finish has been universally good and the knives in general have been excellent. I experience the same confusion about LaSeur, Edgerton, Martell when he made knives and a few others that to me are as good or better than some of the popular makers.
They used to sell like hotcakes 2ish years ago?
Some of this is admittedly driven by the lack of board hype as I see them sit.
Barmoley’s take tallies with my limited experience. The one HF I’ve had was one of the more beautiful pieces I’ve owned, and outcut knives by some forum darlings. It’s among the very few knives I’ve sold/traded that I’d take back in a heartbeat.

Forum hype is a dynamic, fickle, and often arbitrary force — and definitely influences my own buying on BST too. It’s a shame because I can think of a few HFs I’d have picked up to try if I knew they could resell easily.
 
Barmoley’s take tallies with my limited experience. The one HF I’ve had was one of the more beautiful pieces I’ve owned, and outcut knives by some forum darlings. It’s among the very few knives I’ve sold/traded that I’d take back in a heartbeat.

Forum hype is a dynamic, fickle, and often arbitrary force — and definitely influences my own buying on BST too. It’s a shame because I can think of a few HFs I’d have picked up to try if I knew they could resell easily.

I think forum hype does make sense to drive decision making. Whenever I buy a knife Im not 100% sure I’ll love, some of the decision is “how quickly can I sell this if I don’t love it and how much money will I lose?” In my time here, HFs almost always sit and almost always have to be discounted. That makes me hesitant to take a risk.
 
I think it is crazy that his knives are not more popular in the secondary market. I liked every HF I have tried. They are consistently good which not that many makers can achieve. The CruForgeV I tried to sell here (https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...yon-forge-cruforgev-265mm-x-53mm-gyuto.73411/) can easily out cut knives from a bunch of popular makers. Yet, no one wanted it even after I paired it with a Xerxes and dropped the price to something like $600. S tier cutting performance imo.
 
I think forum hype does make sense to drive decision making. Whenever I buy a knife Im not 100% sure I’ll love, some of the decision is “how quickly can I sell this if I don’t love it and how much money will I lose?” In my time here, HFs almost always sit and almost always have to be discounted. That makes me hesitant to take a risk.
You need to put some up for sale on BST first. 😂😂😂😂😂
 
I have heard a few people who's opinions I really respect say that he makes their favorite workhorse. The problem for me is once I got a Lucid and then Jack Clarke, they hit that perfect workhorse itch for me but at a much lower price point. Like others of said I dont really care for damascus and love wrought iron. Basically while I want to try his work it would have to a perfect situation for me to pick one up.
 
I have 1 HF and it was one I chased through multiple owners, a VERY busy damascus piece, s-grind of course, dyed handle, BUSY. Fantastic cutter, not my best, but excellent, a light workhorse per Joel's description. I've had a few of his knives that I've lusted over. Unfortunately for him, the flavor of the month is low bevel Ku and Wrought. He seems to be doing more wrought right now and I don't think I've seen that on the boards much. I think it's certain pieces of his that aren't en vogue that aren't selling well.
 
@nickrut I'm just busting your chops.

@Matt Jacobs - this makes sense. I totally get that feeling of not wanting to risk it.

@pitted_soul (and others who expressed this similar saying above). I totally get this too... the stuff ive seen from him is kinda all over the map. Some S grinds, some convex, some low bevel, etc. so its really hard to know how it'll perform.. .. I just know I recently had a chance to try out one that was withdrawn form BST and let me tell you... I'm SAD AF that I missed it, but I'm sure it'll come back around lol.... I would best describe the geometry like my Evan. Kinda a relatively "fat" convex like... mid blade? I found it had the perfect shape to easily slice through anything while popping off food release like nobodies business.

Also I'm 100% not about the oval shape. Much prefer octagonal or western. but he, for some reason that I'd like to know why, is preferential to the ovals lately?

Total side note - His Comet collaboration he recently posted looks like absolute FIRE.
 
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I got a simple ss clad from him full convex WH 240 x 55 hidden tang 265g . My god, that knife turned me. Prob best buy of 2024
No regretsss there. cant really compare with yanick, since he does mostly midweight stuff. But as far as WH goes. its really really good.

1726726271542.png
 
Also I'm 100% not about the oval shape. Much prefer octagonal or western. but he, for some reason that I'd like to know why, is preferential to the ovals lately?

See, I love oval handles for certain pieces of wood and for some knives but for longer, heavier knives, when I'm in the pinch, I need a spot on the handle underside to give a couple fingers good purchase to articulate the blade effectively. Aesthetically, I love the clean lines of an oval handle and it lets some wood really shine.
 
See, I love oval handles for certain pieces of wood and for some knives but for longer, heavier knives, when I'm in the pinch, I need a spot on the handle underside to give a couple fingers good purchase to articulate the blade effectively. Aesthetically, I love the clean lines of an oval handle and it lets some wood really shine.
I’m with you
 
I've had a few oval handles from HF and BB and these were/are on rather long and heavy knives and they work perfectly for me in pinch. I would say I prefer them to non tapering octagonal handles and in general prefer the bottom of the handle to be oval. If anything top being flat sometimes works better, but bottom being flat doesn't benefit me in any way. The D burnt Japanese chestnut that used to be readily available used to be some of my favorite and these are basically oval. Just goes to show you how much personal preference plays a role in this hobby.
 
Very interesting….. I appreciate the perspectives. I luckily have a specimen with an oval handle with me so I’ll use it again with these thoughts and see how I feel.

I like the octagonal because it gives plenty of girth and surface area. I think what I don’t love about the ovals is that there is too much empty space.
 
I got a simple ss clad from him full convex WH 240 x 55 hidden tang 265g . My god, that knife turned me. Prob best buy of 2024
No regretsss there. cant really compare with yanick, since he does mostly midweight stuff. But as far as WH goes. its really really good.

View attachment 349900
Aye I think that’s where I’m at with his full convex’s……. That stainless clad is awesome…..


Edit although… the one s grind i had/have on loan is also very very good
 
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I don’t buy them because I don’t perceive the quality as high as other makers at that price. Some of this is admittedly driven by the lack of board hype as I see them sit.

Perception based on experience?

Each person listed below has used or owns work from the best Western and Japanese makers on Earth.

@tylerleach says his 250 HF is one of the top-3 knives he's ever owned, aesthetically and performance-wise.

@enrico says a Halcyon honyaki he owned a couple years ago might be the best knife he's ever used.

@Chang has always included him in his list of top-10 makers performance-wise, and I bet still has at least one Halcyon (ironwood scales, domed bronze pins, san mai kasumi) that I imagine he will likely never sell nor trade.

@Prajwal recently sold me a HF ground much lighter than what he typically does. He felt it was a much better performer than his recent Yanick(s). After receiving then testing it on a carrot, the only knives I own that are better pure cutters might be my Bidingers, a Birgersson, and MAYBE my Bazeses and an Antzenberger that is only its superior when push-cutting.

I own and have owned some pretty decent steel. I was beginning to make a list of other top makers' work his performs better then, but I don't think that'd be fair to them, and maybe it's also unfair that I mentioned Yanick, in particular, above (apparently his older grinds were more performant than his current).

As far as why I don't think his knives aren't (allegedly) reselling on BST? Could be for many reasons. Given that he's an American maker, I imagine most of his work in circulation is in the States and most States-side sellers don't want to ship abroad and many abroad buyers don't want to pay, in some cases, high import fees (and more for shipping), but I imagine if he were instead manufacturing over there, he'd do well. Also, a lot of BST favors wrought iron and a lot of Joe's work isn't that. The fact that it's not (relatively) hard to get a hold of his work likely doesn't do him any favors. If he only produced what BST particularly loves from him (wrought iron san mai kasumis, esp. those between 230-250mm) and dropped them on a release schedule of, say, a Xerxes . . . he'd sell out instantly every drop. Lastly, money. His work is not the most expensive, but it is not cheap. I've had people remark that there are never that have sat on BST the last year or two that would've vanished immediately in years prior. That people aren't being as free with their money, either because they don't have it or choose not to part with it for who knows how many plausible reasons. But I wouldn't let how long (some of) his work sits on BST fool anyone into thinking for a second that he is not one of the best makers out there.
 
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Nothing to add to what’s already been said other than that this thread needs HF photos.

Happy owner of this full-tang pattern-weld with a convex grind from Joe. A little busier than I usually go for, but it’s good to get outside of one’s box from time to time. Great balance, super fun to use. I’m lucky enough (and subsequently poor enough) to have knives from some of the makers that everyone is chasing. Still have room in my drawer for HF.

Almost bought the one that @eliasborota has for sale, didn’t only because I have this one. Someone buy it please so that I can stop thinking about it.

IMG_2621.jpeg
 
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