Why buy a gyuto over a santoku?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by _HH_, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. Mar 4, 2019 #31

    Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike

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    Could be that the bolster needs to be ground down. Put the Wusthoff edge down on the cutting board with the heel (bolster) down. Can you see daylight between the edge and the board? If you sharpen it enough, the edge moves up the blade, but the bolster doesn’t, so there’s a gap between the edge and the board because the bolster is hitting the board and the edge isn’t.

    Red is bolster I’m talking about. Yellow is the edge. (This knife doesn’t have the problem I’m describing).

    [​IMG]

    Japanese knives don’t have these bolsters.

    Also, if you want a Santoku, then that’s what you should get!
     
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  2. Mar 4, 2019 #32

    refcast

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    The versatility of the gyuto is the curve and the more narrow in height tip.

    Curvature helps with meat: More curve means you can cut better as it dulls, so more tougher or wedging food items can be cut better. It's why the scimiter is curved because you get extra cutting length, which is great for meat, which needs sharpness and can't just be split like veggies.

    Narrow thin tip wedges very little: Like a lot of people say, the less wide tip has less surface to drag on the thing we're cutting. This is good for precision stuff, horizontal cuts, peeling. It's like having another knife for detail work. It's also great as a way to make the first cut into dense items.


    The trade-off is it's not efficient in the push-cut compared to the push cut king, the nakiri (and usuba, maybe kiritsuke), and the follow-up, the santoku. This efficiency seems to be your priority. A lot of people cut different, too though. For instance, a lot of people do spring onions with the tip of the gyuto with more wrist action, which helps to not crush the spring onion as much (but is, yes, more effort I guess to some).

    It's not a big deal. If you need a bigger main knife, the options are pretty much only gyuto (and then you have the chinese cleaversssss!!!!)
     
  3. Mar 4, 2019 #33

    Benuser

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    Large deadly flat spots are simply uncommon with Japanese makers, quite common though with French. Not imposing my own preferences — what do you know about them? I find the suggestion unpleasant.
     
  4. Mar 4, 2019 #34

    Benuser

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    Quite common with old or neglected Westerns with a fingerguard. The extreme form of it is the reverse belly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  5. Mar 4, 2019 #35

    Cashn

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    I prefer a Gyuto over a santoku because I feel it gives me more options when cutting. Any knife that property sharpens can accomplish any basic cooking goal.
     
  6. Mar 4, 2019 #36

    _HH_

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    Ah you guys have been so helpful - thank you!

    UncleMike - thanks for your helpful picture. My knife is similar to the one in your picture in that it doesn’t not have a reverse belly, but this was useful to check and not something I would have considered. Thanks!

    I feel the issue may be more to do with poor technique on my part than any specific problem with the knife itself. Not having had any formal training I will see if I can find some resources on how to chop and use a knife properly in case it’s something which can be improved wth a change in technique.

    Thanks very much for all your responses :)
     
  7. Mar 4, 2019 #37

    AT5760

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    You can find some great videos online concerning different techniques and grips. Having recently moved from a German-style chef's knife, to a gyuto, I've found that adjusting technique a bit can make a world of difference on a different knife. My gyuto is much more versatile than my chef's knife. Good luck with your new santoku!
     
  8. Mar 5, 2019 #38

    Cyrilix

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    I mean, you basically dictated what a well made gyuto should be so I said that's what you think a well made gyuto should be, but to me, that would not be a well made gyuto. It would be one that fights against my push cuts.

    I have a Takamura Hana and a FKM for gyutos and both of them have sufficiently large flat spots.
     
  9. Mar 5, 2019 #39

    Elliot

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    I am late to this party, but for the sake of the original question: I don't hate on Santoku the way many knife enthusiasts do.
    Do I prefer gyuto? Yes. That being said, I have two Santoku and use them quite regularly. I am not really sure of anything they do better or differently than my gyuto, but I just like having different knives. Let's not forget to have fun and use what ya like using.
     
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  10. Mar 5, 2019 #40

    Luftmensch

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    You don't have to justify your own preferences. Enjoy what you enjoy! Bugger the rest.... Although, if you can afford to, I would encourage experimentation just for the fun of it. And maybe you'll learn something new!

    :p

    Welcome to the forum! Experience is the best way to do it. I would hazard a guess that almost nobody here owns one knife... Further, if they did and were so certain that one profile was the 'best'... they'd be buying tickets to their own show.



    As a post note, there are some really knowledgeable KKFers (I know how that sounds :D) in NZ. They might have purchasing advice. If the retail market in NZ is small, you might find shipping from across the pond in OZ reasonable? But heck... its a global world...
     
  11. Mar 5, 2019 #41

    _HH_

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    Thanks for your post Luftmensch - I’ll let you know how I get on and what I end up with!
     
  12. Mar 5, 2019 #42

    dough

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    I’ll just add one more thought if you break your tip off enough or large enough it’s much easier to give it a santoku style tip. I also find western style chef knives have a different profile and feel then gyuto but santoku have a similar feel to gyuto. If I need a shorter knife bc space is an issues I tend to prefer santoku to gyuto bc they tend to have more height and a sturdier tip. Anyway here is hoping you love your santoku and try other styles in the future.
     
  13. Mar 5, 2019 #43

    Benuser

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    I've used myself a 190mm Hiromoto, and it had enough upswing to allow using 'guillotine and glide'.
    Some gyutos have a tip that low that you can't.
     
  14. Mar 5, 2019 #44

    dsk

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    No mention of masashi profile. Quirky, but I personally like it and might be a decent fit for OP. They offer both 180mm gyutos and santoku that are so close in profile it almost looks like a height difference and tiny difference in tip curve.

    If you like santoku that's what you get. Many advocate nakiri but I honestly disliked it and prefer the santoku for a small knife. That said, experimenting with a 180mm ish gyuto wouldn't hurt, cause you just might love it.
     
  15. Mar 6, 2019 #45

    Itsjun

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    well, even in modern days now, gyuto comes with different belly and profile.
    So it doesn't necessarily mean gyuto > santoku.
    It all comes down to personal preference, feel to the knife and stuffs.

    Personally I own a santoku, but i dont really use it, is because of how thick it is.
     
  16. Mar 15, 2019 #46

    _HH_

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    Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but wanted to thank you all for your help and let you know I just ordered a Tanaka 180mm ginsan gyuto.

    I realised I don’t really know anything about knives at this point, so starting with a well-regraded ‘standard’ blade shape will give me an idea of what a decent Japanese knife can do. I’m sure it won’t be the last knife I buy and there’s plenty of time for getting into more esoteric blade shapes and steels in the future.

    Thanks again for your help!
    Henry
     
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  17. Mar 15, 2019 #47

    Keith Sinclair

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    The Tanaka ginsan is a good start. Easy to sharpen too.

    Wow never expect to have a mass shooting in NZ. That must be a shock.
     
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  18. Mar 16, 2019 #48

    _HH_

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    Thanks for your message Keith - yes it’s awful. Everyone is shocked and saddened that something like this could happen over here.
     
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  19. Mar 16, 2019 #49

    Luftmensch

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    Horrifying. Right-wing terrorism is not something that ever crosses my mind when I think of progressive, diverse & beautiful NZ. Condolences to families and friends affected by the attack. My thoughts are with them.
     
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  20. Mar 17, 2019 #50

    Foltest

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    Well, I transitioned to 240 guyto from 165 santoku. To me, santoku is awkward for meat preparation, because of lack of length. Imo the main benefits are length and narrow tip that helps a lot when it comes cutting to sticky stuff
     

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