why does his method work ?

[r0bz]

why does his method work ?
I have seen many Chinese chefs also sharpen this way
why does his method work please somebody explain to me.
They scrape the knife on the stone and not deburr and it works for them

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

He does a very quick deburr stroke at the end of each step. I'd personally do more but he does do it.

He's also sharpening at near zero grind so pure geometry is bringing a lot to the cutting party. This could also be minimizing the burr although I'm not sure.

 

[Jovidah]

Just a wild guess, but I think that because they use longitudional strokes there isn't much of a burr formation.

 

[r0bz]

pure geometry is bringing a lot to the cutting party.

yes but he does a paper cut test and seems good the edge seems sharp

 

[Jovidah]

Technically speaking I think you can achieve paper cutting edges without proper deburring, for example when you have a wire edge. It just wouldn't last.

 

[Pie]

yes but he does a paper cut test and seems good the edge seems sharp

Paper cut test with a knife one has sharpened many times should be relatively easy.

I remember a video of a knife being sharpened on a convex, round rock. Dude wouldn't even know what a burr is.

 

[miggus]

Hahaha, nice find. That super casual one-handed deburring move is the most nonchalant thing I've seen in a while.

I might be totally wrong about this, but I suspect that the knife doesn't get an amazing edge this way. He even says that it is a fairly soft stainless steel, and that is a mighty steep angle for such a blade material.
Also, when he is doing the paper cut, he is first meeting resistance before the blade goes into the paper, and I believe I hear a slight "tock" as the knife enters the onion skin, too. Like I said, it is partly speculative, but I don't think this is near as good an edge as he could have.

He also seems to use a LOT of force both when sharpening and when cutting.

The question is, what is one after? An edge that will do for cooking? Then goal is achieved in this case, no doubt? Or an edge that is at least 90% as good as is possible with a certain knife? Then my assumption is that there is quite a bit of headroom left here.

My guess as an late entry-level sharpener is that there is a lot of burr left on this knife. If that is not the case, than I'm seriously impressed.

 

[Pie]

Upon watching the video, yeah that knife is far from being sharp enough.

For me. But I’m not a professional cook, and my time is better spent on more sharpening and testing unrealistic edges .

 

[miggus]

Agreed - the ironic thing is that he didn't have to use much more time to get a better edge - just more precision, less pressure in the second round, more time for deburring and a realistic angle for a steel that's probably in the 56-58 HRC range.

 

[Jeff]

Technically speaking I think you can achieve paper cutting edges without proper deburring, for example when you have a wire edge. It just wouldn't last.

Especially on soft steel.
Sort of like a wire edge.

 

[Jeff]

why does his method work ?
I have seen many Chinese chefs also sharpen this way
why does his method work please somebody explain to me.
They scrape the knife on the stone and not deburr and it works for them

Soft steel, longitudinal sharpening strokes, only creating a working edge. bet he sharpens often.

Interesting to see a moderate priced soft steel “kitchen tool” put through its paces.

Clearly this is a “tool,” not an heirloom piece.
It will get used and sharpened, worn out, and replaced.

Really hard use. I counted about 10x board scrapes. Not using my TAKEDA knives like that, but it is a different philosophy for a different tool.

Many meat cutters in a slaughterhouse apply the same philosophy. Softer steel really tough Titanium V-sharpeners, and the knives are drawn through them several times per shift … deposable knives.

 

[Heckel7302]

Looks to me like he is using pressure mostly on the leading stroke. Not going to raise a burr that way.

 

[kayman67]

This might surprise some, but a thin enough blade over the cutting edge doesn't even need an apex to cut paper and most vegetables, even tomatoes or pepper skin. Especially considering the weight it has, but holds true in general. Burrs aren't an issue as there aren't any. I might have said this sometimes, not every sharpening is a burr management or needs to turn into one.

 

[Garm]

Did he really use the same rag to wipe off stone grit and steel particles during sharpening and then proceed to clean his cutting board with it after food prep??
Mmmmm... Gritty onions and silicon carbide chili on the menu.

 

[Neutri]

Adds some iron to your meal! Great for health

 

[Desert Rat]

Sharpening parallel to the edge will also minimize bur formation.
He has done it so many times he knows from experience that he has reached the apex and once he comes off the fine stone there isn't enough of a bur to bother him, it's good enough.

 

[Heckel7302]

it's good enough.

I think we’ve all said that a time or two

 

[miggus]

I just stumbled upon a video from another Chinese chef. He's doing many things that are very similar to the first video that you posted @r0bz.



I see similarities to the first video with that relatively quick sharpening process with only minimal deburring. Chef Wang has a method that's a bit more elaborate, though:

First sharpening / edge setting is done on a Tormek-style machine, than he goes through several waterstones (starts at 4:00)

Odd thing: He mentions that he needs to do a steeper angle for a knife that is for heavier chopping instead of slicing. Fair enough, but this is the angle:

If you ask me, that's under 20° and very ambitious for a softish stainless knife, especially one that is used for rough stuff. Same goes for the 10k grit he finishes this knife on. To be fair, he says that he usually stops at 5k.

The Stones look like naturals to me. Hilarious detail: Putting an oilstone in water to pre-soak. That can't be right.

But then comes the interesting part, at around 5:20. He goes through higher grits, decreasing the sharpening angle for every higher grit. Then he mentions deburring, this is only done by going to higher grits with the same technique, slightly lifting the knife higher up each time.

He does that super quickly towards the end of the video. But I assume that if it's done right, you can deburr relatively quickly. It could be seen as indirectly related to the Kippington deburring method. You can also see him feel for a burr quite often, even though he doesn't talk about it explicitely.

 

[gc0220]

China is like the Texas of East Asia. Everything is bigger there. Giant stones, giant knives, giant kitchen. Tiny burrs tho, apparently.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

I am thinking mostly geometry making it look sharp vs actual sharpness. It really doesnt matter on soft stainless as it wont hold an edge anyways. Its like using a steel on a kiwi knife.

 

[Desert Rat]

I just stumbled upon a video from another Chinese chef. He's doing many things that are very similar to the first video that you posted @r0bz.



I see similarities to the first video with that relatively quick sharpening process with only minimal deburring. Chef Wang has a method that's a bit more elaborate, though:

First sharpening / edge setting is done on a Tormek-style machine, than he goes through several waterstones (starts at 4:00)

Odd thing: He mentions that he needs to do a steeper angle for a knife that is for heavier chopping instead of slicing. Fair enough, but this is the angle:
View attachment 222957

If you ask me, that's under 20° and very ambitious for a softish stainless knife, especially one that is used for rough stuff. Same goes for the 10k grit he finishes this knife on. To be fair, he says that he usually stops at 5k.

The Stones look like naturals to me. Hilarious detail: Putting an oilstone in water to pre-soak. That can't be right.

But then comes the interesting part, at around 5:20. He goes through higher grits, decreasing the sharpening angle for every higher grit. Then he mentions deburring, this is only done by going to higher grits with the same technique, slightly lifting the knife higher up each time.

View attachment 222958

He does that super quickly towards the end of the video. But I assume that if it's done right, you can deburr relatively quickly. It could be seen as indirectly related to the Kippington deburring method. You can also see him feel for a burr quite often, even though he doesn't talk about it explicitely.

To be fair we don't know how much film was left on the cutting room floor, but he is indeed deburring by using pull or push strokes.

He knocked the shoulders off of the bevel on the grinder and then raised the angle on the stones, as he demonstrated on the cardboard he cut. He did two stones at the same angle and then started raising the angle further from there.

I have been doing much the same thing for years, especially with hunting knives. By raising the angle at a change in the stone progression (just makes sense to do it then) the end result is a reasonable approximation of a convex edge. The knife can then be touched up multiple times until the bevel shoulders get to low and effects cutting and quick touch ups like his cleavers and then needs bumped back up on a coarser stone or progression.

 

[miggus]

Thanks @Desert Rat for the explanation. It seems he's doing a better job than the video is actually showing / explaining.

 

[kayman67]

To be fair we don't know how much film was left on the cutting room floor, but he is indeed deburring by using pull or push strokes.

He knocked the shoulders off of the bevel on the grinder and then raised the angle on the stones, as he demonstrated on the cardboard he cut. He did two stones at the same angle and then started raising the angle further from there.

I have been doing much the same thing for years, especially with hunting knives. By raising the angle at a change in the stone progression (just makes sense to do it then) the end result is a reasonable approximation of a convex edge. The knife can then be touched up multiple times until the bevel shoulders get to low and effects cutting and quick touch ups like his cleavers and then needs bumped back up on a coarser stone or progression.

I believe this is also a technique associated with fixed systems, when with every step an angle increase (just slightly) is recommended.

 

[Desert Rat]

I believe this is also a technique associated with fixed systems, when with every step an angle increase (just slightly) is recommended.

I didn't know that, makes sense though.