Why shigefusa or Kato?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by preizzo, May 2, 2015.

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  1. May 2, 2015 #1

    preizzo

    preizzo

    preizzo

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    There are many of good brand out there and mostly all the people inside this forum are always talking about those two producer!
    Why?they are really worth the money and the time? If you are a professional chef would you use 700usd knife in a professional busy kitchen? I am pretty sure that 70 %of the shigefusa around the word are sitting inside a box or just slicing few things every month
     
  2. May 2, 2015 #2

    Dardeau

    Dardeau

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    I use a Shig yanagiba in a pro kitchen. Waiting on a Kato as well.
     
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  3. May 2, 2015 #3

    cheflivengood

    cheflivengood

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    In a michlin environment I 100% would have, but never had the chance, learned about kkf too late. I did use over $500 Steel and never had problems, but that environment was very "don't touch mine I won't touch yours"
     
  4. May 2, 2015 #4

    chinacats

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    They're just what happens to be hot...that said, Shigefusa (and somewhat Kato) has been hot for a very long time:)

    They both make great knives that may or may not be what you like...both are worth at least trying so that you can come to your own conclusions.

    I've owned quite a few Shigs and a Kato...I'll own more Shigs and possibly more Katos but found them both to be outstanding examples of what a kitchen knife can be. They are two of the few that I think anyone with this interest should definitely try.

    :2cents:
     
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  5. May 2, 2015 #5

    Asteger

    Asteger

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    Not very romantic!

    No, in my experience I wouldn't be using these knives at work. However, I think the 'Michelin environment' comment is spot on.
     
  6. May 2, 2015 #6

    easy13

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    Use my Kato, Shig or any of my expensive knives in pro kitchen, not on the line, but when I'm in more of an expo/finishing dishes role or during prep sure. Don't think I am going to ever really be in the position of feeling the joy of ripping through 15 lbs of Carrots with ease using one of those beasts at home. For off-site work, events, catering etc.. I have a separate kit of cheaper yet decent blades (Suisin Western, Misono, Fujiwara...) because you are usually using sh*t cutting boards if any, in odd setups with a bunch of strangers around.
     
  7. May 2, 2015 #7

    Noodle Soup

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    My 180mm Shig gyuto is probably my most used general utility knife. I also have a 180 Shig nakri that is a favorite when I'm making curry paste from scratch. I do have to admit my Kato is stored away right now, mostly because I like the Shig better. But none are what ever the kitchen equivalent of a "safe queen" is.
     
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  8. May 2, 2015 #8

    preizzo

    preizzo

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    I am not a lucky headchef... My employer are to aggressive, try to tech them how to take care of the knives but it s a waist of time, that why I will never bring at work my expensive knives.
    I would like to own some day one of them but just only if I will get a job in osteria francescana (which is my dream as Italian chef).
    Have a knife sitting in a box it s not right!!! As to be use!! 😄
     
  9. May 2, 2015 #9

    cheflivengood

    cheflivengood

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    :rofl2:
     
  10. May 2, 2015 #10

    Geo87

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    Forget brand names the bottom line is I would never use an iron clad gyuto in a pro kitchen. I tried it, never again. Iron cladding so far in my experience has been very reactive. You can't get a very stable patina on it like carbon so it will always react. Dave Martel once said your options are keep it polished or rustina. You will be wiping your blade between every single onion you cut or they will turn black/ Brown. For this reason they are damn unproductive. They also rust very easily. VERY easily.

    I would never consider paying 500-1000$ for a shig / kato. I wouldn't pay half that. Bottom line I won't ever use iron clad gyuto in a pro kitchen. F@$k that! No way :) I feel very strongly about this.

    Marko on the other hand :) I can cut 5kg of onions with his 52100 without wiping the blade once. Never had any rust even when I'm not pedantically wiping it.

    You crazy bastards can keep your shigs and Katos as far as I'm concerned ;) I know that's not a popular opinion but I don't care it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
     
  11. May 2, 2015 #11

    preizzo

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    Forget brand names the bottom line is I would never use an iron clad gyuto in a pro kitchen. I tried it, never again. Iron cladding so far in my experience has been very reactive. You can't get a very stable patina on it like carbon so it will always react. Dave Martel once said your options are keep it polished or rustina. You will be wiping your blade between every single onion you cut or they will turn black/ Brown. For this reason they are damn unproductive. They also rust very easily. VERY easily.

    I would never consider paying 500-1000$ for a shig / kato. I wouldn't pay half that. Bottom line I won't ever use iron clad gyuto in a pro kitchen. F@$k that! No way  I feel very strongly about this.

    Marko on the other hand  I can cut 5kg of onions with his 52100 without wiping the blade once. Never had any rust even when I'm not pedantically wiping it.

    You crazy bastards can keep your shigs and Katos as far as I'm concerned  I know that's not a popular opinion but I don't care it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!


    I agreed totally.
    It s seek that!!
     
  12. May 2, 2015 #12

    labor of love

    labor of love

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    I dont mind maintaining soft iron cladding in a pro kitchen, but I can completely understand why others would disagree. Like many knives Shigs and Kato have certain qualities about them that makes them unique and difficult to find in other knives, its not just about a name brand/maker.
     
  13. May 2, 2015 #13

    preizzo

    preizzo

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    When I am working in my kitchen I Don t need any perfect knife. I need just something that it s doing his job and quality I can found it in a cheap knife aswell.!
     
  14. May 2, 2015 #14

    preizzo

    preizzo

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    Meant I Don t need to spend 500-1000 usd for something I will use for basic things (cutting, etc...)
    I wold spend that money only for vanity. Show off to everyone that I have the best!!
     
  15. May 2, 2015 #15

    labor of love

    labor of love

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    Well then more power to you. I find knives that I like alot all sorts of different price points too.
     
  16. May 2, 2015 #16

    chefcomesback

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    Used them both in pro kitchen in the past , I appreciate the craftsmanship went behind and the quality but now I am only using 52100 monosteel or stainless clad carbon gyutos
     
  17. May 2, 2015 #17
    Maybe add a sub-forum "Average knives for average guys that are on average better than average cooks".
     
  18. May 2, 2015 #18

    preizzo

    preizzo

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    Ooh big words.... 😝
     
  19. May 2, 2015 #19

    chefcomesback

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    Should be right next to the subforum "I have all the high end knives that use for cutting mis en place for dinner once I week and I spend the rest of the week polishing the blade with finger stones " :D
     
  20. May 2, 2015 #20

    drawman623

    drawman623

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    I so enjoy reading the thoughts of experts with such clarity of opinion.

    Permit me, representing myself as one of the "crazy bastards" out there, to express a few thoughts.

    I enjoy my costly Shigefusa knives every day. Some I cut with and others I admire. I have passion to polish my skills and some day appreciate them all. All are cherished because they represent to me a level of excellence and commitment to craft that is noble. It elevates the mundane to a form of art.

    If you buy to cut only, and you cut well, you need not nor should not invest in an artisan knife that will never be more than a tool in your hands. If you are seduced by art and let a master's knife sit in its box, or as another member once put it, "cut 1 tomato per month with hard on" then you are probably not worthy either.

    There are scarcely few things in life that offer such beauty and functionality as fine kitchen knives. I could drink wine or smoke the best cigars and with a puff or gulp, see my asset vanish. With kitchen knives, however, I can savor their beauty, strive to master their function and enjoy the experience over and over. With proper care, I can hand my knives down or trade them up.

    To some end users, a thriving market is an opportunity to experience the best at whatever personal level is most gratifying. Sorry if I don't measure up to YOUR standards...but my Shigs do meet my own quite well.

    I'll look into the Marko...the last one I held had such wonderful taper and balance. Not sure what I'll do with 5kg of sliced onions...but things have a way of sorting themselves out in the end:rolleyes2:
     
  21. May 2, 2015 #21

    preizzo

    preizzo

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    Hi drawman
    Can I ask something? Are you a chef?in which invairoment are you working with your shig and Kato?
     
  22. May 2, 2015 #22

    chefcomesback

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    I am no expert , different strokes for different folks I must have added . I have sold all of my high end knives . I can get good performance from cheaper knives ( tadafusa) with proper sharpening and thinning
     
  23. May 2, 2015 #23

    drawman623

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    I am not a chef. I cook and cut for my own joy from my home.

    I feel great respect for the opinion of experts who use their knives with grace and skill. I believe that it is short sighted, however, to see a knife as nothing more than a means to chop food in a professional environment.

    Your point against iron cladding is quite valid. I hope that you can se my point, intended to say that for some, expensive inappropriate knives can provide a valid joy of ownership too.
     
  24. May 2, 2015 #24

    drawman623

    drawman623

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    Performance has many definitions. A Ferrari or a Honda will get you from A to B. On that basis, there is only one logical choice. I've tried to become satisfied with lesser things...but to the extent that I can afford myself choice, I enjoy the finer things...even in the knowledge that they may not offer better utility than the economical alternative. I take pride in the art side
     
  25. May 2, 2015 #25

    chefcomesback

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    I am not comparing honda to Ferrari , your analogy is bit off . I have seen lot of high end knives that are not maintained or sharpened and cut not as well as better sharpened and maintained cheaper knives . Knives are my hobby and take most of my spare time , I do appreciate the high end quality comes with it but what you describe as lesser things are actually not as less as you think if you know how to maximise their performance by sharpening and bit of maintenance .
     
  26. May 2, 2015 #26

    drawman623

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    Point taken. No disrespect or arrogance intended
     
  27. May 2, 2015 #27

    Dardeau

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    Not drawman, but I am a professional, a sous at a very well respected restaurant where I do use Shigs and plan to use a Kato as part of a rotation.

    As for iron cladding I have used four knives as my main line knife in rotation recently, a Tesshu (now sold), a 210mm Shig gyuto, a 210mm itinomonn suji, and a 210ish Heiji. Three of those are iron clad, and after they settled down I had no problems with them. The Heiji, my favorite, is stainless. I don't have to wipe as much cutting lots of garlic. That isn't why it is my favorite.

    I have a couple of semi stainless single bevels that I like as much or more than some of my carbons.

    If you don't understand using a Shig or Kato maybe you should buy or borrow one and give it a whirl? If no one will loan you one (if you are in the States I would think about it, my 210 Shig is on a road trip right now) you can resell for a very low loss right here. That is one of the coolest things about KKF.
     
  28. May 3, 2015 #28

    Geo87

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    Well that escalated quickly... I was only asleep for a few hours since my first comment. Just a reminder I was talking about iron clad knives like shig and kato not being suitable for a pro enviroment IMO.
    Of course at home you can appreciate all the art you want it's fine by me :) just not my thing.
    I will continue to work with monosteel carbon and clad stainless knives as I have to be as productive as possible to survive in a pro kitchen. As any cook/ chef in a busy restaurant will understand. I will continue to recommend other cooks do the same. Nobody talks much about the reactivity of shigs and other iron knives here openly. I don't want any cooks spending their hard earned cash on one based on the fanatical following and high praise they have here just to find it's more reactive than they bargained for. We don't have a great deal of money to throw around like some do.
     
  29. May 3, 2015 #29

    Geo87

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    I did borrow a shig kitaji gyuto recently thanks to the generosity of this forum :) and it was very reactive just like every other iron clad knife I've used. My kochi I used for 6 months never calmed down.
    I would never make such comments without personal experience and trying it first.

    I am entitled to my opinion as are you however unpopular my opinion be.

    I have to cut up ALOT of stuff where I work. Sometimes we have 3 weddings in a weekend. Iron clad knives are just not for me they are just too unproductive with all the wiping and the extra upkeep.

    Like I said been there, tried it... Never again
     
  30. May 3, 2015 #30

    Geo87

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    Are you calling me average? If so dems fighting words.
    Perhaps your unaware but uh...
    [​IMG]
     

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