Wide-bevel gyuto - Tesshu vs Hitohira Kikuchiyo Ren vs ...

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Arnen

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Jan 19, 2021
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Location
Israel
Hi all!

I've learned a lot from reading the forum, and would like to ask for some advice.
I'm looking for a good white or blue #2 210mm gyuto for around $200. I have a Misono 440 180mm and a Hiromoto AS 180mm gyuto that I currently enjoy.

The profile I'm looking for is something with a bit more thickness on the spine but with a good distal taper (and thin enough behind the edge/at the tip to fly through onions/tomatoes etc.) I think I want a wide bevel gyuto.
The options I'm looking at:
  1. Tesshu 210mm White 2 Gyuto Wider Version (50mm heel to spine) (Aframes) - $229
  2. Tesshu 210mm Blue 2 Gyuto (43mm heel to spine) (Aframes) - $239
  3. Hitohira Kikuchiyo Ren 210mm White 2 Gyuto (Hitohira) - $190
  4. Masakage Yuki 210mm White 2 Gyuto (CKTG) - $205
My main difficulty is deciding between the Tesshu and the Hitohira.
I've read people saying the Tesshu is a great value (is it still a great value at $240?)
I also read that the Hitohira might be too thick at the tip to fly through e.g. onions?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance! :)



LOCATION
What country are you in? Israel



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef's Knife - Gyuto

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese _Wa

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $200-230 max



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) Slicing and chopping vegetables

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Complementing a Misono 440 180mm and Hiromoto AS Sanmai 180mm Gyuto

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) Hammer, Pinch, Finger point

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) Push, Chop, Draw

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) (Carbon steel; wider spine; good distal taper; thin tip. I think I want a "wide bevel".)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? Prefer Migaki/Kasumi finish.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? Medium-Heavy knife. Handle not a major consideration.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? Good for push cutting and slicing; tip that goes through onions and soft produce; decent+ food release; ease of sharpening.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Medium+. Sharpness is more important I think.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) Yes.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
 
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Wide bevel & strong distal taper aren't a very common combination. Would a Western handled 240mm with a convex face be an option — think Misono 'dragon' type?
 
I have a Kikuchiyu rikichi in blue 2 and it is absolutely phenomenal. Ren is a different sharpener but nevertheless, Kikuchiyu's blue 2 is up there with the best in my opinion. He often forges white 2 Honyaki so I have no doubt that his treatment of that still will be equally as impressive. The Shiraki factory that forges the Tesshu line will also have done an excellent job forging the knives but I have no experience with the tesshu sharpener. In terms of sliding through onions, I think either knife will be thin enough so long as you are good at sharpening the tip of the blade well (neither blade is likely to have much in terms of distal taper but the large wide bevel will do the job). Considering aframes doesn't list weights or dimensions I would think Hitohira would be the safer bet as you know what you're buying (unless another forum member can chime in). Masakage is a step below your other options in my opinion.
 
Thanks for the responses and Barry's Knives for sharing your experience with Kikuchiyu (albeit a different sharpener and steel.)
I think the important thing for me is the wide bevel, so the distal taper doesn't have to be that strong, just enough so that the tip is thin enough to get through onions etc.
Looks like the Mazaki wide-bevels are a bit out of my price range, unless I'm missing something...
Would love if anyone with experience with the aframes or this particular Hitohira could chime in.
 
I can speak to the Tesshus and Yuki. I haven't tried the Hitohira you link, but it looks like an intersting knife at a palatable price point.

Masakage Yuki doesn't get recommended much around here, but I actually like them. Decent value at ~$200. I wouldn't say anything about it excels nor are there big shortcomings.
  • Wide bevel with a slight concave.
  • Stainless-clad
  • My one gripe is that where the choil meets the neck is rounded not a right angle. Depending on your grip, this can either be very comfortable of awkward. For me, it's a little awkward since it prevents your middle finger from resting against the choil tightly.

I prefer the Tesshus to the Yuki. The grind is a more convex, with a nicer distal taper as compared to the Yuki.
  • Faux wide-bevel (it's just a finish not a grind).
  • Iron-clad
  • Right-angle choil-neck.

Both the Yuki or the Tesshu would serve you well. At the ~$200-250 pricepoint, though, there are a ton of other options, too. But, as to the knives you listed, I think you might want to think about what type of choil-neck you might like and whether you want stainless-clad or iron-clad.
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I have a Kikuchiyu rikichi in blue 2 and it is absolutely phenomenal. Ren is a different sharpener but nevertheless, Kikuchiyu's blue 2 is up there with the best in my opinion. He often forges white 2 Honyaki so I have no doubt that his treatment of that still will be equally as impressive. The Shiraki factory that forges the Tesshu line will also have done an excellent job forging the knives but I have no experience with the tesshu sharpener. In terms of sliding through onions, I think either knife will be thin enough so long as you are good at sharpening the tip of the blade well (neither blade is likely to have much in terms of distal taper but the large wide bevel will do the job). Considering aframes doesn't list weights or dimensions I would think Hitohira would be the safer bet as you know what you're buying (unless another forum member can chime in). Masakage is a step below your other options in my opinion.
Thanks for the responses and Barry's Knives for sharing your experience with Kikuchiyu (albeit a different sharpener and steel.)
I think the important thing for me is the wide bevel, so the distal taper doesn't have to be that strong, just enough so that the tip is thin enough to get through onions etc.
Looks like the Mazaki wide-bevels are a bit out of my price range, unless I'm missing something...
Would love if anyone with experience with the aframes or this particular Hitohira could chime in.

Aframes information on the Tesshu is a bit out of date.. Kenichi Shiraki doesn't personally forge the knives anymore but his apprentice does unless the knives state "Kenichi Shiraki" instead of "Shiraki blacksmith/forged" but neverless his apprentice is currently the head of the forge at Shiraki for the last few years.

And that apprentice is Kikuchiyo of Hitohira. So between the Hitohira or Tesshu they're both forged by the same person but sharpened by different people. I can't comment on the Tesshu.

I have a Kikichiyo Kyuzo W2. F&F is punching above is weights for what its worth and how it feels when cutting and on the stones is phenomenal. Only reason the price is lower than usual for the Hitohira is because it is sharpened by an apprentice. Mind you he is trained under his grandfather Morihiro. So at the end of the day you will still get an excellent product.

Between the Kyuzo and Ren. What I can say is the Kyuzo is thinner and lighter and will undoubtedly perform better but that's a comparison between one knife that costs twice as much as the other... If you are to hypothetically say the Kyuzo is "perfect" then the Ren still needs some work to reach that hence the price point but is definitely worth more than the asking price imo. F&F is better than some knives at a higher price point imo.

Edit: Comparing the specs of Tesshu W2 and Ren. The Ren on paper is thinner, slightly longer by 2mm, shorter in height by 2mm and heavier by 5-8 grams. Both handles are made from the same material.
 
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You could also take a look at munetoshi if you are interested in excellent value for money and one of the best heat treats/edges out there. Nice flat wide bevel too. I think knifewear currently do a migaki/polished version that looks very cool.
 
Yes, the Ren is a new sharpener. He's getting better, I got his 240. it's from the early batch, so the face is not too flat and the edge is not thin. the good thing is this knife has decent weight on it. After much more work, it's stellar, my only concern is that the tip is not thin enough for my taste.
 
Thank you all for the great advice. Ordered a Hitohira Kikuchiyo Ren 210mm in the end. Hope to add a review in a little while. 🤩
 

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