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I've a question more so than a critique, and this might require Jon or Dave to answer. I've noticed both in a lot of peoples refurbs as well as in yanagis that haven't needed a refurb so much as have has just been used up after years of work the blade road near the tip no longer flows quite right, or at least not like it did when the knife was new. Is this just a function of using the knife up? Or should you pay careful attention to the tip area to try and "raise" the shinogi a little more in this area to keep the geometry of the knife closer to what it was when the knife was new?

To clarify, on your friend's knife - as well as most older yanagis I have seen - the blade road tapers from the heel to the tip, where as in a new knife the blade road tends to stay even and "flow" better through the tip region. The edge profile of the knife (at least from what I can see - I'm not what I would call an expert on yanagis) seems right, but the blade road itself seems to thin a little near the tip, which in my head means the knife is thicker at the tip than it would have been new. Is this something that is just natural from correct sharpening of the knife, or should I adjust the way I'm sharpening my knife to try and maintain the original shape, which I think would require more work in the tip area, particularly in the area of the shinogi itself?
 
that is a good question and now something im trying to compare with my yanagi which is less than a year old. i honestly have no idea but i would imagine it has something to do with the thickness of the metal at the tip compared to the heel. if there is less steel it will probably affect the taper as it takes years of sharpening and grinding of the metal at the tip of the knife

this is where the experts will have to chime in...
 
UglyJoe said:
Or should you pay careful attention to the tip area to try and "raise" the shinogi a little more in this area to keep the geometry of the knife closer to what it was when the knife was new?
Click to expand...

That is exactly what is needed if you want to keep the tip shape unchanged as the knife wears down. You would need to remove more metal in the tip area if you want the blade road to look as it did on the new knife.

Now that would involve some extra work, and it is easy to see why perhaps people would not bother to do it if it is not affecting the useability of the knife in the short term. In the long term however failing to do this will distort the shape of the knife.
 
UglyJoe said:
I've a question more so than a critique, and this might require Jon or Dave to answer. I've noticed both in a lot of peoples refurbs as well as in yanagis that haven't needed a refurb so much as have has just been used up after years of work the blade road near the tip no longer flows quite right, or at least not like it did when the knife was new. Is this just a function of using the knife up? Or should you pay careful attention to the tip area to try and "raise" the shinogi a little more in this area to keep the geometry of the knife closer to what it was when the knife was new?

To clarify, on your friend's knife - as well as most older yanagis I have seen - the blade road tapers from the heel to the tip, where as in a new knife the blade road tends to stay even and "flow" better through the tip region. The edge profile of the knife (at least from what I can see - I'm not what I would call an expert on yanagis) seems right, but the blade road itself seems to thin a little near the tip, which in my head means the knife is thicker at the tip than it would have been new. Is this something that is just natural from correct sharpening of the knife, or should I adjust the way I'm sharpening my knife to try and maintain the original shape, which I think would require more work in the tip area, particularly in the area of the shinogi itself?
Click to expand...

while it's a huge improvement over how it was, my Mk I eyeball came to a similar conclusion. when i dropped mine (for the second time, the first time my yanagi suffered no damage) and chipped the tip, i had to do that. it was like 10 years of sharpening in one session.
 
IMO it's very important to maintain the height of the blade road grind from heal to tip as the knife is sharpened. If at all possible repairs should be made with this in mind and correct if necessary. I try to make every effort to fix this on each knife I sharpen but I've had a couple of major restoration jobs where it was impossible to fix as the steel just wasn't there to work with.
 
Dave Martell said:
IMO it's very important to maintain the height of the blade road grind from heal to tip as the knife is sharpened. If at all possible repairs should be made with this in mind and correct if necessary. I try to make every effort to fix this on each knife I sharpen but I've had a couple of major restoration jobs where it was impossible to fix as the steel just wasn't there to work with.
Click to expand...

ya it was my first resto job and it was quite a hard one to start out with. as you can see its a little messed up in some places still but i feel as though the owner will be happy with the work it got. i could probably spend another 10 hours and still have work to do but like i said in previous posts, spending all that time could just get him a new knife. i know he will be happy and for me it was just a starting stone to restorations that a lot of people have been asking me about.
 
Citizen Snips said:
ya it was my first resto job and it was quite a hard one to start out with. as you can see its a little messed up in some places still but i feel as though the owner will be happy with the work it got. i could probably spend another 10 hours and still have work to do but like i said in previous posts, spending all that time could just get him a new knife. i know he will be happy and for me it was just a starting stone to restorations that a lot of people have been asking me about.
Click to expand...

I think that you did a great job and that's especially true considering what you had to work with, the knife was shanked and you had no power tools, again great job! :)
 
Citizen Snips said:
ya it was my first resto job and it was quite a hard one to start out with. as you can see its a little messed up in some places still but i feel as though the owner will be happy with the work it got. i could probably spend another 10 hours and still have work to do but like i said in previous posts, spending all that time could just get him a new knife. i know he will be happy and for me it was just a starting stone to restorations that a lot of people have been asking me about.
Click to expand...

i just want to reiterate that it's a huge, huge improvement. you should be really proud.
 
Indeed, he will surely be stoked.
Plus it's good to practice on other people's crap. It's a win-win situation.
Nicely done sir.
 
thanks guys. i just wish i could keep it for a souvenir but that is selfish. im glad it will be going into the hands of someone that will really appreciate the work and time it took and on top of that, bring a knife that was unused back to life.

i really do appreciate the help on this one. without the kind words of encouragement, i would probably have given up.
 
Nicely done.... Great effort....
I tried to search for you and i found it is http://www.sakai-tohji.co.jp/
堺刀司 正重作
You can copy and paste to google it if you want to
If anybody would like me to type the Chinese Kanji on knife...
i can try to type for you
 
Oh yeah, that is a nice job there son. Congrats! I know the owners are going to be pleased. I like how shiny the bevel is.:thumbsup:
 
he got it back a few days ago and actually cried. this knife was given to him by a famous chef whom i cannot remember the name, but it was like 5 years old when he received it. bringing it back to life actually brought tears to his eyes and gave me an incredible feeling of accomplishment. im so glad i was able to do something like that for someone who really really appreciates it. i told him i would find him no matter where he was if he ever let the knife get like that before. i also told him that work comes with a free lifetime sharpening. i will be glad to get my hands back on it and i dont want it to get sharpened by someone that doesn't know what they are doing.

thanks again for the kind words guys
 
Citizen Snips said:
he got it back a few days ago and actually cried. this knife was given to him by a famous chef whom i cannot remember the name, but it was like 5 years old when he received it. bringing it back to life actually brought tears to his eyes and gave me an incredible feeling of accomplishment.
Click to expand...


Awesome! :cool2:
 
Wow, that is a true accomplishment there dude. Congrats.
 
That's what it's all about! :D
 
vinchan said:
Nicely done.... Great effort....
I tried to search for you and i found it is http://www.sakai-tohji.co.jp/
堺刀司 正重作
You can copy and paste to google it if you want to
If anybody would like me to type the Chinese Kanji on knife...
i can try to type for you
Click to expand...

well found, i think this is actually it. some expensive knives here. he said it was given to him in the mid 1980's so im sure its 25-30 years old
 
allumirati said:
Dave, how do you restore the hollow on a single bevel knife?
Click to expand...

One of two things happen when I do this....

1. I use convexed platens & it comes out nice.

2. I use convexed platens & I screw the pooch.


The convex platens work nicely but I've found that you need more than one size and you can't grind straight (90 deg to platen length) across. You have to approach the platen from several angles to match up how this was done on the large wheels in Japan. The hollow looks simply ground but it's anything but that.
 
Dave Martell said:
One of two things happen when I do this....

1. I use convexed platens & it comes out nice.

2. I use convexed platens & I screw the pooch.


The convex platens work nicely but I've found that you need more than one size and you can't grind straight (90 deg to platen length) across. You have to approach the platen from several angles to match up how this was done on the large wheels in Japan. The hollow looks simply ground but it's anything but that.
Click to expand...

That's what I figured. So more or less angle to the platen toward the tip? Also:

1. where do you get convexed platen?
2. What grit do you use to grind?
3. Do you use scotchbrite belts to clean up?
4. How far can you grind until you hit soft cladding?
5. Can you make a video?
6. Are you going to make yanagi? :idea2:
 
allumirati said:
That's what I figured. So more or less angle to the platen toward the tip? Also:

1. where do you get convexed platen?
2. What grit do you use to grind?
3. Do you use scotchbrite belts to clean up?
4. How far can you grind until you hit soft cladding?
5. Can you make a video?
6. Are you going to make yanagi? :idea2:
Click to expand...


Yes you approach the platen on an ever increasing angle of attack as you approach the tip.


1. I made the first one from (ahem) a sanding block. The second two are A2 (I believe) and were purchased from a machinist/knifemaker over on BF who made them in 3' & 4' radius(s).

2. This depends but it's best to play it safe and use a smooth running slow cutting belt, turn the grinder down low, and take your time here.

3. Yup

4. I haven't hit this yet....

5. Nope :p

6. I hope not but I shouldn't say never.
 
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