Yet another gyuto recommendation.. Midweight stainless/semi-stainless

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Domas

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
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Location
Lithuania
Hi KKF,

This is the second time I am asking for advice in regards to buying a new gyuoto knife. The more time I spend here, the tougher decision it becomes..

I will skip the questionnaire this time (sorry).

Briefly about me. I am proficient home cook with average knife skills. I would like to replace my German kitchen knifes to the ones of Japanese type and the first on the list is chef's knife/gyuto. I use my current chef's knife to cut/chop/slice/mince various veggies and fruits, proteins and herbs.

From my new gyuto I would expect:
  • Adequate corrosion resistance. I am not keen on immediately wiping my knife after each use. My example routine is something like this: do some work with knife, do another task, do some work with knife again, and wipe it only when the knife is not needed anymore. Also, I cut tomatoes quite often and citrus fruits on rare occassions (though, citruses could be sliced using other knife). So the knife should be made from stainless or semi-stainless steel. I've been looking into the gyutos made from SG2, SKD, SLD, R2, Ginsanko, HAP40, ZPD-189, YXR7, AEB-L, M390, CPM-154, SRS-15 steels.
  • Prone to chipping. I would like the knife to be quite robust and versatile. Though, no hards tasks - chicken bones or frozen food, they will be taken care by old German knife - but it would be nice if some seeds (apple, grape) by mistake won't chip gyuto easily.
  • Midweight (preferrably more on workhorse than laser side) seems to be the preferred type since lasers are too thin and true workhorses (for example, like Heiji) are a too hefty to my taste.
  • Of course, best possible edge retention.
  • Average (or better) food release. I won't expect magic here from a midweight, but better FR is better. Maybe S-grind is an anwer here?
  • Good F&F
  • Size 210-240. The sweet spot is 220-225, since 210 is a bit too short and 240 is a bit too long. Unfortunately, I can only find craftsmen knives that fit into 220-225 range.
  • Handle type does not matter, either Yo or Wa is fine. I used Western handle only so far, but Japanese seemed to fit conveniently in my hand during a quick check of Japanese knives in local knives shop.
  • Budged 200 EUR/ 220 USD - 500 EUR/ 550 USD. The rationale here is that I might buy a cheaper knife, if it is a super bang for a buck and is just slightly worse than more expensive ones; or I might buy expensive craftsmen made knife if it is something super exceptional and ticks all the check-boxes flawlessly.
  • I am from EU, but I might be able to buy knife in USA through my friends. Though, the knife, that can be bought in EU, is a preference.
  • Should be easy to sharpen on stones since I am willing to learn how to sharpen knives on the stones by myself.
Here is my current candidate list and some comments:
  • Ryusen Blazen SG2. I've noticed that this knife is regarded by many experienced members here, profile and weight seems to be just perfect, but I saw some concerns about its FR, britleness and sharpening (does not seem to be an easy task).
  • Itinomonn StainLess. Seems to have a nice profile, very good bang for the buck, and there is one available for a sale in EU. Though, it seems to be too laserish to my taste.
  • Gengetsu semi-stainless. Seems to tick most of the check-boxes, but is somewhat too light and octagon handle does not seem to be convenient for me (D-shaped is what I would prefer).
  • Sukenari HAP-40, ZDP-189, YXR7. Just discovered these knives and they seem to be very nice! But no idea about steels, which one will fit my preferences best: HAP-40, ZDP-189 or YXR7?
Here is another list of knives which I have been considering at first, but after more research they do not seem to be candidates anymore:
  • Heiji. Regarded by many people here, but is definitely too bulky.
  • En Ginsanko. Didn't find any good comments about this one, but feel free to add ones!
  • Akifusa Powder Metal SRS-15. Too laserish to my taste.
  • Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan ZDP-189. Didn't find enough information about this one
  • Edit (added). Mazaki Stainless Kasumi. Seems to be too hefty, like Heiji.
And, finally, craftsmen knife list, which I might consider also (if they are really worth that money!):
  • Dalman AEB-L
  • Andrei Markin M390
  • Halcyon CPM-154. Looks like a dream, S-grind and there is 225mm version!
I am looking forward to hear your thoughts and votes on those knifes! New additions are also very welcome.

Sorry for a long post and thank you for your time!

Regards,
Domas
 
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This is an easy one for me. You should get a Dave Martell gyuto in CPM-154. It is the best all arounder there is. For the usage you are describing I don’t think it can be beat. Easy, done.
 
I have the Takamura HSPS Pro 210mm that I really like. On the thin side but still decent food release. Very easy cutter. Some flex but not too much. Great f&f. Sharpening not too difficult I would say - perhaps the hardness makes it a bit more time consuming.
Also have the Itinomonn Semi Stainless 240mm. Also on the thin side but decent food release. With a ho-wood handle it is quite a light knife - almost too light for my taste, although I cannot say that does in anyway affect performance - really more a preference thing.

Cannot comment on the other suggestions above. Would love to try a Martell.
 
I can’t wait to try my Takamura Migaki R2. Ordered while on Christmas holiday and it’s sitting home waiting for me to use it. I can chime in soon.
 
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In terms of steel ZDP-189 is good but not considered tough/robust. For me I like stainless steels with good edge stability/toughness at the expense of extreme edge retention. That list includes CPM-154 (RWL-34), SG2 (R2) or AEB-L.
 
I'll jump in with some things about the JKI En. Very nice, might be my favorite in the 200 and some change price range. Has a laserish tip for fast, clean work but a little more ass to it through the body for decent food release. But if you think the Gengetsu is too thin, (is it possible to be too thin?) then this one may not work for you.

My experience with Gengetsu is they are great mid weights - I could go and have gone all day with one of mine. If there's a better knife "off the rack" I've not found it yet. Subjective of course.

On your side of the pond I'm liking a Kashima (Yoshikane) from Cleancut a lot. It's got a white core with stainless cladding so gross mishandling may lead to some rust at the lamination line but with normal use and care the core will patina over quickly. May be a bit lighter than Gengetsu. I've done a passaround with it and you can find reviews in that thread.

My current favorite "craftsman" knife is Tillman Leder. Tillman is based out of Germany and his wait list is forever but you may catch a used one on BST in the 4 - 500 USD range. (If I don't see it first:cool:) You may be able to find a Marko or Devin, also favorites, in ABEL in that price range as well.

There's not a bad knife on this page - wish everything had so many good choices.
 
At this price range and your requirements i would go for Mutsumi Hinoura 240 or 210 whichever you prefer. Either aogami super or white 2 are great because his temper like his father's is perfect.
http://cleancut.se has them in stock most of the time
 
danemonji said:
At this price range and your requirements i would go for Mutsumi Hinoura 240 or 210 whichever you prefer. Either aogami super or white 2 are great because his temper like his father's is perfect.
http://cleancut.se has them in stock most of the time
Click to expand...

I can only say good things about Hinoura-san’s heat treatment of AS. My Nakiri came extremely thin behind the edge, with only a minute bevel.

It hasn’t gotten a single micro chip, despite it being my first j-knife, used on a hard acacia board that made it chirp and zing at the slightest torsional movement. Sharpens you very easily and lasts a looong time.
 
Ryusen Blazen and Gengetsu are both fantastic knives. If I remember correctly, the Blazen was heavier (Western handle), Gengetsu (242 / 48 / 165g) feeling lighter, nimbler... Gengetsu is not a laser but somehow feels like one... I particularly loved the Gengetsu‘s handle!

FWIW, I sold the Gengetsu and kept the Blazen. Why? Simply because I already had so many wa-handled knives but no stainless PM and I prefer heavier knives above 180g... The Gengetsu was a tad too light for my taste although a fantastic knife!

Is the Blazen brittle? Not more than one would expect. I cut a cold piece of roasted pork belly, skin was still surprisingly crispy, which resulted in some micro chips in my blade. Is it hard to sharpen? I sharpened it on my 1k/6k King combo stone, and no, it’s not hard to sharpen!
 
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Thanks everyone for your comments!

@daddy yo yo I've noticed that you bought Kippington CPM-154 recently. How do you like it? Its profile and weight seem to be very nice!
 
Honestly, something like a Tanaka Ginsan 240 gyuto from Knives and Stones is at the bottom of your budget (especially the KNS version which has some fit and finish upgrades) and ticks almost all your boxes.

Length wise it is 240mm but I honest wouldn’t worry about that. Everyone will tell you that 240 quickly becomes natural—it’s just like getting a bigger phone.
 
Would recommend only getting a Tanaka knife thats from KNS honestly, I have the Tanaka Ginsan 210mm from another vendor and the final finish on it was very underwhelming. The blade is good for sure but basic things like a rounded spine/choil are missing which is a pretty big negative.
 
Agreed, with the caveat that the cheaper non-finished version is likely under your budget. If you’re someone who doesn’t care about having the edges rounded/eased, or doesn’t mind putting in a little extra work yourself, then the basic Ginsan Tanaka gyuto from Knives and Stones is fantastic value. Especially if this is your first Japanese chef’s knife and you’re not exactly sure what you’re looking for.

But the special KNS version with the brown handle and brass ferule is a pretty perfect midweight knife for that price.
 
I’ll weigh in since I own or have owned several knives under consideration.
Gengetsu is a great, great knife. Though it’s quite thin behind the edge, so I wouldn’t call it robust.
I owned a Blazen, definitely not a more substantial knife. Not terribly exciting to me, but it was a great all-around knife. I don’t think the R2 was all that difficult to sharpen.
I still have one if the original batch of Tanaka Ginsankos from KNS. Best value knife in my collection, and a definite keeper for me. I’ve sold far more expensive knives that don’t hold their own against this knife.
Personally, my top choice would be to get a custom from Kippington. I have a 230 heavy laser in AEB-L from him. I’m very happy with it. Custom length, height, profile, grind. You might have to wait a few months, but it will be worth it.
I’d certainly recommend any of the above four.
 
I am going to take a contrarian point of view, because I sense you may be better served. Please do not take offense. I am just a guy with some experience who would like to be helpful. I would prefer you ignore me, than to feel offended.

My first high quality knife was a Takeda 240. I did a lot of research. I defined the parameters and choose the best knife that fit those parameters. For me, the knife turned out to be one I use only rarely. But I still occasionally pull it out and have some fun. I now own a bunch of knives. I enjoy caring for them and choosing the knife for the duty at hand. I enjoy testing one against the other and deciding for myself where one excels over the other.

You obviously think about things quite a bit. You like to cook and will therefore will spend some time with your new knife. But there are a few things to consider. First there are spectra in categorization. What I mean is that there are not just workhorses and lasers. There are not just knives with bellies and no bellies....fit and finish....balance...nimbleness...reactivity...heat treat...even stainless. Pretty much all of the knives you are considering will give you a different experience than the German knives. You will likely be pleased.

The other thing I would claim is that we really do not understand our preferences and abilities sometimes till we have tried some of these knives. I have found that some knives I initially do not care for, but with use they become favorites. As I become more proficient, different qualities attract me. We change. Reading KKF can help to lead us, but it can also cause us prejudice.

All of this is to say, I believe we can not calculate which knife will serve us the best. If you are a very experienced cook, who has multiple techniques that have been maximized and have tried a lot of knife styles; well perhaps then we can calculate. IMHO that is the guy who should custom order. But for the majority, we should jump in and try some knives.

This is just my opinion; wishing for you the best...
 
Great advice that will most likely be ignored:upsidedownspin:we all did it, you just don't know what you don't know and until you try a bunch of knives you don't know what you will like.
 
Imo, you should consider carbon knives with stainless clad too. It is easier to maintain a stainless clad rather than a iron clad.
Plus point is, it will be much easier to sharpen a carbon knives than the hard (65-67) semi stainless steel. The feedback from the sharpening stone will also feel much more nicer.
 
Finally, after lots of contemplation I've made a decision. Ordered Kaeru stainless 210 for the beginning and a custom Tilman in Niolox (specs to be finalized after some experience with Kaeru) that will be made in around 9 months. Also, I think I will keep an eye on 210/240 AEB-L Dalman, its S-grind and good food release is very tempting.

Thanks everyone for your insights!
 
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Aww too late to the part, would have suggested @Andrei too

Hos knives look awesome. Kip was already mentioned. I was about to have Jim make my first custom but taxes.killed that dream. Made me look around in EU though, and om confident.my isasmedjan Will make me just as happy!
 
Yoshikane SKD would be a good choice and there’s one in BST
 
Yoshikane SKD is not hard to sharpen. SKD12 is Japanese equivalent of A2 steel, it might be relatively harder to sharpen than white steels but not by much and not hard in absolute terms.
 
I have been testing the JNS Toyama stainless clad Blue gyuto 240mm recently. It might be a good option to give it a try.
Like J C mentioned before, you should consider stainless clad too as they are easy to maintain and sharpen.
Toyama Stainless clad blue gyutos are lighter than the carbon clad version, so they might work pretty well for you as middleweight.
 
Barmoley said:
Yoshikane SKD is not hard to sharpen. SKD12 is Japanese equivalent of A2 steel, it might be relatively harder to sharpen than white steels but not by much and not hard in absolute terms.
Click to expand...

I'd say somewhat similar to sharpening AS. Maybe one extra pass at each step.
 
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