Yo Handle Gyutos with Forward Balance

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tostadas

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I was under the impression that all Yo-handled knives were balanced at the bolster or farther back along the handle. Recently, I've learned that the TF Mab is actually balanced in front of the heel. Are there other yo-handle knives that you guys like that also are more forward heavy?
 
My 210 Denka, likewise and I have Ebony scales on mine. My Ashi Honyaki are also balanced slightly in front of the choil. The tang has a noticeable taper towards the heel and that shifts the balance point forward.
 
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I was under the impression that all Yo-handled knives were balanced at the bolster or farther back along the handle. Recently, I've learned that the TF Mab is actually balanced in front of the heel. Are there other yo-handle knives that you guys like that also are more forward heavy?
Not sure where you encountered that. How long are the knives that you describe? That'll definitely be a factor.
 
Not sure where you encountered that. How long are the knives that you describe? That'll definitely be a factor.

I have personally used a 210 takamura and a 150 gesshin stainless. Both balance right around the bolster (takamura was very slightly forward). Also when I previously watched some of the knife spec videos on cktg for things like the Misono swedish 210 and 240, they all seemed to around the same area as well.
 
Both my tojiro 240 are forward balanced (DP and sg2). Misono 270 and Masamoto 270 with yo are both forward balanced. Dalman western honyaki very forward balanced. so, Yeah, western handles are certainly sometimes forward balanced 😁
 
I don't understand. I thought that other than how Western handles are usually heavier, there is no relation between balance and handle type. Longer (270) knives can be more blade forward.
 
The handle type does matter. Having a yo HD2 and a wa FM side by side with the heel lined up, you can see the difference in the position of handle end. It affects the balance and weight distribution significantly.

With wa knife, since the handle is long and there is less weight in the area between heel and ferrule, I like the balance at least 2~3 cm forward of the heel, because that means the handle is light and there won't be another weight center swinging behind my palm when I chop. With yo knife, I think the balance could be at heel or a little forward because most weight of the 2nd part of the knife are already in my hand as the handle is shorter and the heavy metal bolster is right there in my hand. I wouldn't mind if the balance is more forward though.
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Yo or Wa I prefer a neutral balance in the pinch grip, which equates to a balance point approx 1cm in front of the choil.
 
Since there is no correlation, the comment makes no sense. Of course, you can compare two knives where the maker happens to produce both a wa and a yo version, but you can't generalize anything from that knife.
 
I always assumed the length and material of the handle combined with the metal inside the handle were designed specifically to set the balance point.

I remember comparing yo and wa handle knives on jki website and I thought the wa handled knives were generally heavier than their yo counterparts. Do there exists knives with both yo and wa handles where the wa handled knife is lighter than the yo handled knife? '

Wa handles are generally denser than yo handles right? Thats why yo handles are longer?

Wait, there's something wrong with my logic here.
1) Assume wa handled knives are heavier than yo handled knives
2) Assume the knife makers wants the same balance point (forward of the handle) between the two versions of the knife
Then, the blade of wa and yo handled knives must be different. One does not simply add weight behind the balance point.


Ah this is dumb. I'll just assume the tang of the knives are customized to preserve balance. Or that wa and yo versions of the same knives should be considered as unique as different lengths of the same type of knife.

I do have more appreciation to handle makers now though... I always thought they were just slapping a piece of wood on a knife.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that length matters too. Balance points will not necessarily be in the same location for the same knife in different lengths (say 210 vs 240).
 
Assuming the same blades, a full-tang construction is almost always going to be heavier than the wa counterpart, especially with modern, stable materials vs the common Japanese lightweight woods.

Ways to counteract that are the dimensions themselves (shorter and more narrow), tapered tangs, skeletonized tangs, and lighter materials. Even all of those combined it's still difficult to compete.
 
I always assumed the length and material of the handle combined with the metal inside the handle were designed specifically to set the balance point.
I agree. What I described is more like a typical scenario than a generalized rule. For example, the typical length of wa handles for a 240 gyuto is 140-143 mm, and the weight is usually ~30 gram if it's ho wood. 30-35 gram if burnt chestnut. and 50-80 gram if fancy ebony/ironwood handle with silver spacers. So if you choose ho or burnt chestnut, you are almost guaranteed a blade heavy knife. However, with yo knife, since the existence of the full tang and metal bolster, even if you drill some holes in the tang, the balance won't be that forward. And I think that's ok given the yo handle is usually shorter and the bolster is right there near the heel.
 
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most YO handle knives I've used are heel heavy or balanced right at the heel. but I guess there's exceptions to every knife?
 
However, with yo knife, since the existence of the full tang and metal bolster, even if you drill some holes in the tang, the balance won't be that forward. And I think that's ok given the yo handle is usually shorter and the bolster is right there near the heel.
Makes sense. Thanks!
 
I was under the impression that all Yo-handled knives were balanced at the bolster or farther back along the handle. Recently, I've learned that the TF Mab is actually balanced in front of the heel. Are there other yo-handle knives that you guys like that also are more forward heavy?

I don't know which TF line is which so excuse my insurance. But of the TFs with western handles and blade forward balance, does that include the bolstered version? Or is it just the TF western outfitted with scales but no bolster?
 
I don't know which TF line is which so excuse my insurance. But of the TFs with western handles and blade forward balance, does that include the bolstered version? Or is it just the TF western outfitted with scales but no bolster?
insurance excused :LOL:

Denka is only bolstered
 
I don't know which TF line is which so excuse my insurance. But of the TFs with western handles and blade forward balance, does that include the bolstered version? Or is it just the TF western outfitted with scales but no bolster?

I was referring to this thread TF Mabs 210mm

It has a bolster.
 
There are a few Japanese and Western custom makers who have blade forward 240+ knives.
 
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