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Yoshikane SKD gyuto - hammered vs nashiji finish

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jbou

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Hello, that question has been debated here for the Nakiri, but still not answered at the end.


Is there any difference in the grind between those two finish?
Does the finish behave differently in terms of maintenance?

In terms of specs here we are (hammered/nashiji):
Edge lenght : 214/214 mm
Blade height : 44,9/45,7 or even 48 mm on Carbon knife
Weight : 143/144 g (but different handle - ho vs wengé)
Thickness : ? measured at différent points for each seller...



 

ModRQC

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I bought Tsuchime for both units because they were less expensive; also vendor could confirm 48mm at heel for the 210mm gyuto, whereas Nashiji units are pretty much always measured at 46mm. IDK why, or if its variations found within both lines.

In the end I paid 100$ less for a taller unit with the crappy ho handle. I don't think finish or wenge handle warrants for the nashijis to be so much more expensive. Finish I couldn't care about less, but food release is nice enough for both I guess. Handle makes no difference in a pinch grip, but I could see myself rehandle to get it from mid 140s to mid 160s grams.
 

timebard

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Adding to @ModRQC above, be aware that the Tsuchime version isn't necessarily taller. I have one and it measures about 46 at the heel. If that's a selling point for you maybe confirm with the merchant before you buy.
 

jbou

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I guess height may vary and is not dependant on the finish.
If I summarize they seem to be the same in term of performance. But nashiji may be more expensive.
Thank you guys for answering! It may be my next knife...I want to try what a good grind means!
 

Jason183

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Yoshikane Grind is pretty much the same, one is wenge handle(heavier), the balance point right at the heel. The ho wood handle from carbon CO is lighter, so it’s blade heavy.
 

JaVa

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My Yoshikane tsuchime blade hight is also 46mm. The specks seem close enough so probably won't make a significant difference either way.
BTW From EE you get a 10% forum discount. Does that raise any additional interest? I got mine there. Great experience, great knife.
 

jbou

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BTW From EE you get a 10% forum discount. Does that raise any additional interest? I got mine there. Great experience, great knife.
Good idea but I have to check import fees to EU. Maybe a better deal at Cleancut in the end.
 

SeattleB

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It's odd that the Cleancut link says the tsuchime pattern version is made of SKD-11, aka SLD or D2 steel. Mine is made of SKD-12, the semi-stainless, aka A2. Even more odd that Cleancut calls their version SKD-11 "semi-stainless" though that steel has 12% chromium.

The link to Carbon Knife Co says the nashiji version is made with "SKD" without mentioning which of the nine variants of SKD steel it is.

I'm a newbie and it's unfortunate that the stores are misleading and even I would spot major errors like this.
 

jbou

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It's odd that the Cleancut link says the tsuchime pattern version is made of SKD-11, aka SLD or D2 steel. Mine is made of SKD-12, the semi-stainless, aka A2. Even more odd that Cleancut calls their version SKD-11 "semi-stainless" though that steel has 12% chromium.

The link to Carbon Knife Co says the nashiji version is made with "SKD" without mentioning which of the nine variants of SKD steel it is.
I would not worry that much, it must be a mistake from Cleancut : IIRC Yoshikane SLD is only used on the damascus version wich is way more expensive. SKD is user both on nashiji and tsuchime.
 

ModRQC

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Yes and probably Yoshikane is behind Konosuke "Sanjo SLD" as well as I know he does the YS variants.
 

LostHighway

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My Yoshikane tsuchime blade hight is also 46mm. The specks seem close enough so probably won't make a significant difference either way.
BTW From EE you get a 10% forum discount. Does that raise any additional interest? I got mine there. Great experience, great knife.

Current KKF discount is 5%, no longer 10%
 

SeattleB

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I would not worry that much, it must be a mistake from Cleancut : IIRC Yoshikane SLD is only used on the damascus version wich is way more expensive. SKD is user both on nashiji and tsuchime.
I suppose. You veterans would know better than I would. I can see from the steel industry specifications that SKD-11 and SKD-12 are very different in composition. I have read several places that SKD-11 (aka SLD) is much more difficult to sharpen and difficult to remove the burr. The electron photographs show the carbides are very different in distribution and size.

There are so many other good choices I don't see any advantage in choosing SKD-11. I would prefer SKD-12 or another steel.

It does appear that there is a great deal of confusion about these two steels. The retailers should be crystal clear about what they're selling.
 

LostHighway

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I suppose. You veterans would know better than I would. I can see from the steel industry specifications that SKD-11 and SKD-12 are very different in composition. I have read several places that SKD-11 (aka SLD) is much more difficult to sharpen and difficult to remove the burr. The electron photographs show the carbides are very different in distribution and size.

There are so many other good choices I don't see any advantage in choosing SKD-11. I would prefer SKD-12 or another steel.

It does appear that there is a great deal of confusion about these two steels. The retailers should be crystal clear about what they're selling.
Epicurean Edge confirms that the hammered knives are SKD12 and that a damascus knives are a proprietary version of SKD11/Hitachi SLD. They say they have this direct from Yoshikane. They state that, in their experience, Yoshikane SKD is less reactive than A2 but still only semi-stainless and that Yoshikane SLD is even more stainless than D2. On paper SKD should definitely be less rust resistant and eventually take some degree of patina as well as being a bit easier to sharpen and possibly a bit less prone to chip (assuming identical grinds/sharpening angles). SLD should be effectively stainless and should hold an edge longer (again all else being equal). How you balance those attributed is up to you.
 

madmotts

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I think there were some folks on KKF talking about the grind on the nashiji vs hammered being a little different. I don't know where the thread is...

Last year, i bought a hammered 210 ktip from EE that's pretty thin behind the edge and have an older nashiji 240 w2 that's much thicker. From what i've read i thought was the opposite.
 

SeattleB

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There are a couple of threads about the Yoshikane Tsuchime vs the Konosuke (Yoshikane) Tsuchime being ground differently based upon having different weights (more than a handle difference). Other threads seem to indicate that the knives are different from year to year (or batch to batch) even in those sold under the same brand. I suggest asking for weights and dimensions. I bought mine from Epicurian Edge and love it. The grind is so smooth and consistent you'd think a CNC router did it.
 

captaincaed

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It's odd that the Cleancut link says the tsuchime pattern version is made of SKD-11, aka SLD or D2 steel. Mine is made of SKD-12, the semi-stainless, aka A2. Even more odd that Cleancut calls their version SKD-11 "semi-stainless" though that steel has 12% chromium.

The link to Carbon Knife Co says the nashiji version is made with "SKD" without mentioning which of the nine variants of SKD steel it is.

I'm a newbie and it's unfortunate that the stores are misleading and even I would spot major errors like this.
This is frustrating. If it's mystery steel, call it mystery steel. Every since I learned, I feel like a grammar Nazi whenever sellers mess up they're terms.
 

captaincaed

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I have read several places that SKD-11 (aka SLD) is much more difficult to sharpen and difficult to remove the burr. The electron photographs show the carbides are very different in distribution and size.
D2 (SKD-11) is something I've had in several pocket knives, and now a couple kitchen knives. God I'm sick of it.
 

zizirex

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I like A2/Chromax/SKD-12 better than D2/SKD-11/SLD. My A2(Yoshikane) holds it's toothy-ness edge better than SLD (Masashi and Nihei). Chef's Edge just got their Yoshikane restock with a nice Oct burn chestnut handle (Most burn Chestnut handle are ****, only some are properly executed).
 

inferno

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here is one distributor of yoshikane.
skd stainless steel. that indicates skd11.

i can confirm that my yoshi is as close to stainless as at it gets. its not a 5%Cr steel at least.
a2 is not a semi stainless steel its just a tool steel.
 

JaVa

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I think there were some folks on KKF talking about the grind on the nashiji vs hammered being a little different. I don't know where the thread is...

Last year, i bought a hammered 210 ktip from EE that's pretty thin behind the edge and have an older nashiji 240 w2 that's much thicker. From what i've read i thought was the opposite.
The difference in thickness could be just due to the size difference. I've had a couple of knives in 21 and 240 which have had very different spine thickness making them feel like completely different knives.

Also different steels usually means other differences as well. Then there's the fact that some vendors like order some knives with their own specs (like Bernals thinner Wakui Hairline vs Cleancuts thicker Wakui Hairline). Ad to that some degree of differences because the knives are hand made. Plus I've noticed quite a lot of accidental miss information on some vendors sites. Sometimes there's changes when smiths make corrections following the demands of certain trends. Like ATM taller profiles and higher grinds on wide bevels etc.

If there's uncertainty in any knives specification, to be sure it's better to verify everything from the seller before purchase.
 

Nemo

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here is one distributor of yoshikane.
skd stainless steel. that indicates skd11.

i can confirm that my yoshi is as close to stainless as at it gets. its not a 5%Cr steel at least.
a2 is not a semi stainless steel its just a tool steel.
My Yoshi SKD doesn't rust in sensible normal use but the core steel does patina a little. Looks kinda cool.

My understanding was that Yoshi calls SKD-11 "SLD" and they call SKD-12 "SKD". Possible I'm mixed up about this, I guess.

Great knife either way.
 

captaincaed

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The difference in thickness could be just due to the size difference. I've had a couple of knives in 21 and 240 which have had very different spine thickness making them feel like completely different knives.
My 270 Kochi feels like a different kind of knife compared to the 210, same steel and construction. It's kind of wacky, and doesn't help the persistent urge to collect and try all options at all.
 

DavidPF

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the persistent urge to collect and try all
This can sometimes be cured (or at least partly remedied) by a very harsh method, harmless to the knives but unfortunately not to you: choose one of the knives you have, one that you would definitely not be willing to give up regardless of others. For one week, every time that you see it or think of it or remember it, you must clearly and very audibly pronounce the word "Pikachu".
 

panda

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which yoshi is actually skd12?? does anyone own both and can confirm if the grinds are different?
 

jbou

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